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Casting the Golf Club

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Casting the Golf Club
Rotary Swing Tour
 
 
 

 

Casting the Golf Club

START HERE: "Creating Lag in the Downswing Secret" Video



Topic: Casting


Posted By: Sammy
Subject: Casting
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 10:11am

I seen myself on video for the first time yesterday and I noticed I'm casting the club way to early in my downswing.  I did a search of the forums hoping to find some discussions on this topic but nothing came up.  Does anyone else have this problem?  Are there drills that I can do to work on this? 

I'm also having a problem shanking (I hate to say or even write that word) the ball.  My instructor says it's because I start turning my shoulders too soon rather than letting my arms and hands drop down before turning.  I didn't think I had to worry about my arms and hands dropping down.  From what I understand the 1PS is just rotating back and forward.  Do the hands and arms have to drop down before rotating back through?  I'm trying to concentrate on turning with my core and this seems to help but I still find myself shanking once in awhile.  Can anyone give me suggestions?

Thanks in advance.




Replies:
Posted By: marcus923
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 11:39am

Sammy,

Your front arm will drop down as you rotate back to impact. Because your arms are passive they will fall on their own. You must stay connected, that is, not let your lead arm get away from and keep your back elbow along your shirt seam. The other thing is to rotate your entire core, not just your shoulders through the shot.

Take some time and search this forum. There are lots of posts with good advice for everthing that ails youSmile.

 

Mark



Posted By: Winfinancial
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 11:50am

Sammy,

Look at video on impact bag. Get one and do the drills. Be careful you can hurt your wrists if you are casting and not rotating through the bag. I have found this training aid to fix a lot of what could go wrong in building my OPS. Three concepts I use: constant spine angle, passive arms, and turn left with your core on downswing.



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 11:53am
Our very own http://clubcaster.home.comcast.net/ - ClubCaster is also working on riding his swing of that move. He may be able to provide you some good guidance. I don't remember where he currently stands but I seem to remember some recent posts where he's reported improvement.

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Hcp: My putting


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 12:50pm
Chuck on casting:

"It’s amazing how many ailments of the golf swing go away when the golfer is “freed up” to swing the club naturally as they would anything else. Take casting the club for example. From the top of the swing, many golfers will begin to throw the club toward the ball with the hands and the body stays static. Of course, you would never do this when swinging anything else, but a “dead” body will leave no choice but for the arms and hands to take over to try and get the job down. Have that same golfer throw their club down the fairway and walla’, casting goes away. Never let your golf swing become full of static positions. It is not static, it is quite the opposite. Making a natural swing and forgetting about the arms and hands will cure the cast and a multitude of other golfing sins."

I don't think the topic of casting needs to be a lifetime dissertation. Once you begin using your body to move your hands and arms, instead of the other way around, casting is no longer an issue.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: 55Preakness
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 12:56pm

Sammy,

When I hit a bad one, I can tell I get disconnected.  This could be a fat shot, a thin shot.  Try the baseball drill and the broom drill.  I have started doing the baseball drill as part of my preshot routine.  It may look odd but it works.

I am new the the OPS Site and DVD but have seen some really promising progress in the last month with my swing.  Can't say the same thing for the spring cleaning.



Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 1:00pm

Thanks for the replies guys.  I really appreciate it.  I'll keep working on it.  I hope to meet up with Chuck when he comes into Chicago the 26th so he can cure all my swing flaws. 

Can anyone address the problem I'm having with turning my shoulders too soon?  Will turning with the core cure this problem as well?  I mean I shouldn't have to concentrate on dropping my arms before I rotate back to the ball should I?  I know you're not supposed to think about your arms and hands at all but I'm having trouble doing that.  The more I work at it the easier it'll become I guess.

Thanks again.  I love this site...it's helped me with my transition to the 1PS immensely.

 



Posted By: 55Preakness
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 1:08pm

Reluctant on posting any help on this issue any more than the basics as I am only a "OPS Newbie" myself.  But I can tell you I don't focus on my arms, mostly turning with my "sides".  Not sure if that helps. 



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 1:12pm
Sammy,
Look through the Vault. Tons of good information in there. Working through the Swing Fundamentals articles should provide some help to some of your questions.

-------------
Hcp: My putting


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 1:29pm

Hi Sammy,

I've been trying to overcome this affliction for a long, long, long time.  I'm not sure if the source of your casting is the same as mine, but you might find my http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - website interesting, especially the http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net/ClubCasterFaq.htm - FAQ .  Also, the " http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1962 - Secret of golf , clubhead lag. TGM -.- " thread has quite a discussion on it, including a post by me where I write a little about my efforts to overcome casting.  When I wrote that post I was feeling fairly confident that I had either learned to lag the club sufficiently, or was about to, because of some recent success on the course.  But I haven't been doing as well lately, and yesterday I videotaped my swing for the first time in a while with some rather discouraging results.  I plan to post the video clips tonight, and am hoping that Chuck can give me some feedback.  I remain convinced that following Chuck's instruction gives us our best hope for improvement.

Best wishes,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 2:07pm

Thanks Club.  I read the post.  Some good stuff in there.  This may have been the best advice..a post by lefty:

"You could write a thousand page tome on lag that nobody could ever hope to fully understand, or you could simply say, "Turn your body back to the ball but keep your hands back there for an instant". "

I was doing this the other night and hitting the ball fairly well but I'm not sure if I was casting or not as I wasn't recording my swing.  I may try to create that sensation again (keeping my hands back for an instant) while recording my swing to see if that helps.

I've also read through your website..some good stuff there as well.  I've bookmarked it and will continue to check in.   

I'm hoping someday while practicing I'll just get it (like a light bulb turning on) and everything will just come together. 

Thanks again.



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Sammy

I'm hoping someday while practicing I'll just get it (like a light bulb turning on) and everything will just come together. 


Thanks again.



That would be the Mushin way. It will suddenly hit you one day.

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Hcp: My putting


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Clubcaster

Hi Sammy,


I've been trying to overcome this affliction for a long, long, long time.  I'm not sure if the source of your casting is the same as mine, but you might find my http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - website interesting, especially the http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net/ClubCasterFaq.htm - FAQ .  Also, the " http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1962 - Secret of golf , clubhead lag. TGM -.- " thread has quite a discussion on it, including a post by me where I write a little about my efforts to overcome casting.  When I wrote that post I was feeling fairly confident that I had either learned to lag the club sufficiently, or was about to, because of some recent success on the course.  But I haven't been doing as well lately, and yesterday I videotaped my swing for the first time in a while with some rather discouraging results.  I plan to post the video clips tonight, and am hoping that Chuck can give me some feedback.  I remain convinced that following Chuck's instruction gives us our best hope for improvement.


Best wishes,ClubCaster http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



This whole casting debate has begun to give me a headache. I don't want to start worrying about it either. It makes me get too technical.
The cause of casting is rather simple really and very easy to remedy. It may not be for those who are fighting two-plane tendencies or insist on using the hands to start the downswing. Since the arms are kept passive in the one-plane swing, casting should not be an issue. I see it being more of a problem with the "classic" swing.


-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 6:57pm

 

Originally posted by arbano1

Since the arms are kept passive in the one-plane swing, casting should not be an issue. I see it being more of a problem with the "classic" swing.

I don't know, Arbs.  All I can tell you is that I've tried a variety of methods to keep my arms passive, from purposely having them feel like noodles to not being aware of them at all, and in one form or another I still cast the club.  I'm trying not to think about it too much right now because I'm committed to following Chuck's guidance, and I don't want to sabatoge that with my own ideas.

Take care,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Clubcaster

 

Originally posted by arbano1

Since the arms are kept passive in the one-plane swing, casting should not be an issue. I see it being more of a problem with the "classic" swing.
I don't know, Arbs.  All I can tell you is that I've tried a variety of methods to keep my arms passive, from purposely having them feel like noodles to not being aware of them at all, and in one form or another I still cast the club.  I'm trying not to think about it too much right now because I'm committed to following Chuck's guidance, and I don't want to sabatoge that with my own ideas.

Take care,ClubCaster http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Well, maybe Chuck needs to chime in and set us all straight on this topic so we can move on. I believe there are more important things to be concerned with.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 7:20pm

 

Originally posted by arbano1

Well, maybe Chuck needs to chime in and set us all straight on this topic so we can move on. I believe there are more important things to be concerned with.

What are you, the subject matter police now?  I'm sorry you find the topic so distasteful, but the fact that there has never been an accomplished golfer that casts the club tells me that it is pretty important.  Sure there are more important things to be concerned with.  World peace, for one.  Maybe we should just stop talking about golf altogether.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 7:24pm
Caster, I'm sure everything has been thrown at you but I feel compelled to try this anyway. Have you ever tried to hit shots and make a conscious effort to actually pause at the top, just for practice? Looking at your swing it looks like you have a very quick transition from BS to DS which would seem to cause you to "bounce" the club off the top. I used to practice with a metronome set to a very slow setting. Just hit shot after shot with a slow tick-tock sound.

-------------
Hcp: My putting


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 7:39pm

 

Originally posted by flyfishin

Caster, I'm sure everything has been thrown at you but I feel compelled to try this anyway. Have you ever tried to hit shots and make a conscious effort to actually pause at the top, just for practice? Looking at your swing it looks like you have a very quick transition from BS to DS which would seem to cause you to "bounce" the club off the top. I used to practice with a metronome set to a very slow setting. Just hit shot after shot with a slow tick-tock sound.

Fly,

The quick transition from BS to DS that you see in my avatar was actually something I tried on purpose to create lag at the top of my swing.  It actually worked to create lag at the top of the swing, but you're right, that it did make the club bounce back causing me to lose the lag prior to impact.  I've had a much slower transition in the past and that hasn't worked either.  Thank you for the suggestion though.

ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: jonag
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 7:41pm

I believe that if you focus on a swing "driver" as far as possible from the arms, casting is hard to do..  maybe focus on passive arms, maybe focus on active core or torso or left shoulder or whatever feels right for your swing.

Try to feel that the arms are connected and sort of glued more or less to the body, and let the body do the swinging.  That will create the lag you need.



-------------
Jon Arne
golfaholic @ 10.7


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by Clubcaster

Originally posted by flyfishin

Caster, I'm sure everything has been thrown at you but I feel compelled to try this anyway. Have you ever tried to hit shots and make a conscious effort to actually pause at the top, just for practice? Looking at your swing it looks like you have a very quick transition from BS to DS which would seem to cause you to "bounce" the club off the top. I used to practice with a metronome set to a very slow setting. Just hit shot after shot with a slow tick-tock sound.

Fly,

The quick transition from BS to DS that you see in my avatar was actually something I tried on purpose to create lag at the top of my swing.  It actually worked to create lag at the top of the swing, but you're right, that it did make the club bounce back causing me to lose the lag prior to impact.  I've had a much slower transition in the past and that hasn't worked either.  Thank you for the suggestion though.

ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net

Fly,

I want to make sure that you don't think I'm totally dismissing your suggestion.  You may be absolutely right, I don't know.  I just posted my lastest swing videos in another thread so that I can see what Chuck thinks.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 06 March 2006 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by Clubcaster

 

Originally posted by arbano1

Well, maybe Chuck needs to chime in and set us all straight on this topic so we can move on. I believe there are more important things to be concerned with.
What are you, the subject matter police now?  I'm sorry you find the topic so distasteful, but the fact that there has never been an accomplished golfer that casts the club tells me that it is pretty important.  Sure there are more important things to be concerned with.  World peace, for one.  Maybe we should just stop talking about golf altogether.

Thanks,ClubCaster http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Hey man. Freedom of Speech.
Clubcaster, as you know casting is releasing the club from the top of the swing. Essentially, your wrists unhinge early. I hope you find the tip that will be a break through for you. Here is a great tip that helped me understand how to stop casting.

To stop casting, think of your body as a hurricane. Your arms are like the outward arms and your body the middle of the storm. As the head stays still (the eye of the hurricane), the body uncoils. The arms follow behind but at extremely high velocities. Your body effectively pulls your arms and thus, the club, into the ball.



-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: Links
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 8:44am

Clubcaster i'm with you my friend,

Trying to stop myself from casting the club is a problem I feel I will never be able to eliminate. To those who have never suffered this ill, think yourself lucky. It's like trying to give up smoking, but 10 times harder.

I have yet to find a swing thought or feel that truly cuts it (excuse the pun). When I do i'll buy everyone on this site a pint.

Links



Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Links

Clubcaster i'm with you my friend,


Trying to stop myself from casting the club is a problem I feel I will never be able to eliminate. To those who have never suffered this ill, think yourself lucky. It's like trying to give up smoking, but 10 times harder.


I have yet to find a swing thought or feel that truly cuts it (excuse the pun). When I do i'll buy everyone on this site a pint.


Links



We all have swing flaws we may never get rid of. This does not mean we can't play decent golf or we have to wait to play until the swing flaws are eliminated. Tiger Woods has a less-than-perfect golf swing. Despite his swing flaw, guess what.


-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 10:37am
Originally posted by arbano1



We all have swing flaws we may never get rid of. This does not mean we can't play decent golf or we have to wait to play until the swing flaws are eliminated. Tiger Woods has a less-than-perfect golf swing. Despite his swing flaw, guess what.


OK, I'll guess.  My guess is that Tiger Woods wouldn't be as good as he is if he didn't try to identify his "swing flaws" and correct them. 

 


Posted By: Links
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 10:53am

Good point arbano,

but if Tiger had my swing flaws he wouldn't play decent golf. Actually maybe he would, but I can't.

Tiger could play one armed and still win tournaments. He is a wonder of golf, but an unrealistic swing model for humans.

Links

 

 



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 10:59am
To all aflicted with casting:
I know this is a simple minded answer but have you done the broom drill? Are you able to overpower the broom when you swing it? I practice that drill and work on having as light a grip as possible. That drill really produces a feeling of lag for me. It would seem that if you swing the broom with a light grip and let your body do all of the work it might help in creating the mental connections needed to repeat it with a golf swing.

-------------
Hcp: My putting


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:00am
Originally posted by One Planer


Originally posted by arbano1


We all have swing flaws we may never get rid of. This does not mean we can't play decent golf or we have to wait to play until the swing flaws are eliminated. Tiger Woods has a less-than-perfect golf swing. Despite his swing flaw, guess what.
OK, I'll guess.  My guess is that Tiger Woods wouldn't be as good as he is if he didn't try to identify his "swing flaws" and correct them.   <!--
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Dude, I get your sarcasm. You know I never said that one should not try and elminate them. We can still play good golf while at the same time trying to "perfect" our swing.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Links

Good point arbano,


but if Tiger had my swing flaws he wouldn't play decent golf. Actually maybe he would, but I can't.


Tiger could play one armed and still win tournaments. He is a wonder of golf, but an unrealistic swing model for humans.


Links


 


 



I would like to see Tiger playe one armed.
He may be an unrealistic model for many of us in terms of the full swing, but we can sure learn alot from his short game and mental game. He has the total package. When he is swing is off, he makes up for it with incredible creativity and of course talent.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:09am
Originally posted by flyfishin

To all aflicted with casting:
I know this is a simple minded answer but have you done the broom drill? Are you able to overpower the broom when you swing it? I practice that drill and work on having as light a grip as possible. That drill really produces a feeling of lag for me. It would seem that if you swing the broom with a light grip and let your body do all of the work it might help in creating the mental connections needed to repeat it with a golf swing.


It's not simple minded. An understanding of how to do something in golf doesn't always require a long thesis. Simple is best.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: Links
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:12am

Tiger will only be beaten by a man with a stronger will to win. It won't happen in my lifetime.

Nicklaus, Hogan, Woods. No perfect golf swing in there, but 3 brilliant minds.

I have a crap swing which hinders my perfect mental attitude.

Anyway I just want to kiss casting goodbye. Flyfishing - i will keep up the drills. Something happens though when I put down the broom and pick up a club!!

Links



Posted By: hayes959
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 2:52pm

Sammy,

Here's my 2 cents.  I have found that no drill gets me back on track to the promised land of rotation like putting a headcover,or golf glove under the armpit of the front arm and staying connected.  this works so well that I have played a round of golf tucking my left shirtsleeve in the armpit.  If done properly, it is almost impossible to get off track using this drill.  Better yet, put a towel under both armpits and swing away. 



Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 2:55pm
Thanks Hayes.  I'll definetly try that.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by Links

Clubcaster i'm with you my friend,

Trying to stop myself from casting the club is a problem I feel I will never be able to eliminate. To those who have never suffered this ill, think yourself lucky. It's like trying to give up smoking, but 10 times harder.

I have yet to find a swing thought or feel that truly cuts it (excuse the pun). When I do i'll buy everyone on this site a pint.

Links



Great!!  Anither guid reason tae go ti Scotland.  Pints all around on our man Links, lads. 

 


Posted By: dougw
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:30pm

[QUOTE=One Planer said]

Great!!  Anither guid reason tae go ti Scotland.  Pints all around on our man Links, lads. 

  Planer,

11:19 PM????????

Regarding the spell check ...............is it a little late and a few too many pints, or were you just funnin'?

dw



-------------
Pray for a good crop, but keep hoein' while your prayin'


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 07 March 2006 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by One Planer

Great!!  Anither guid reason tae go ti Scotland.  Pints all around on our man Links, lads.   


I had a Robin Williams flashback when I read that. http://funrestarea.com/pages/robin_williams.shtml - Funniest damn skit (LANGUAGE WARNING) ever about the game of golf.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 12:05am
Originally posted by dougw

[QUOTE=One Planer said]

Great!!  Anither guid reason tae go ti Scotland.  Pints all around on our man Links, lads. 

  Planer,

11:19 PM????????

Regarding the spell check ...............is it a little late and a few too many pints, or were you just funnin'?

dw



Links won't have any trouble reading it.  It's my poor attempt at "Lallans", or the dialect spoken in the Scottish Lowlands.  True speakers of Lallans might be offended that I referred to it as a dialect.  They consider it the one of the two true languages of Scotland, the other being Gaidhlig (Scots Gaelic), which is the original language of the Scottish Highlands.  Either way, the dude is buyin' the pints as soon as he cures the casting.   Och aye, laddie!


 


Posted By: Links
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 3:23am

Nae bother, Yin Planer, twas a doddle fir mi

Hae ye sum Scots in ye, bonnie lad? Yer lallans is braw!

Off to the range tonight, with 2 headcovers, a broom, a metronome and a bucket o' patience.

Thanks guys.



Posted By: nuke99
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 3:46am
Originally posted by hayes959

Sammy,

Here's my 2 cents.  I have found that no drill gets me back on track to the promised land of rotation like putting a headcover,or golf glove under the armpit of the front arm and staying connected.  this works so well that I have played a round of golf tucking my left shirtsleeve in the armpit.  If done properly, it is almost impossible to get off track using this drill.  Better yet, put a towel under both armpits and swing away. 



Agreed , it really forces you to lag the club.

Since its member site, im gonna say what i also think is the real secret to a golf swing or lag , nomatter is one plane six plane, 100 plane. The correct tension and relaxation is eventually one of the most important key. Most of the caster i notice plays with so much tension in their arms/ body/wrist/grip, and using the wrong force to "hit" the ball. Why is Golf called a Swing, not Golf Hit? Corny? NO... this will slow down your swing and make a swing inaccurate and inefficient.

You must make yourself a human elastic band and let the flexibility (stored energy)take care of the speed. you only can be flexible when you are relaxed ... And speed only comes with relaxed and flexible muscle. not hard and slow muscle..This is the efficient power part

A efficient power source without a fulcrum doesnt work does it? therefore :

But you will need a good stable lower body, spine, and arm extention.(all the more tensions part) to act as the "leverage and fulcrum" to control the power of the whole swing, this part is the accuracy part.

The combination of both = LAG. But of course,

There are many things like the correct swing plane,tempo, setup etc .. but that is another topic

Let me know what u guys think ..




-------------
Swing Early May 06 Under Construction by Chuck. Getting CLOSE..


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 9:56am
Originally posted by arbano1

Originally posted by One Planer


Originally posted by arbano1


We all have swing flaws we may never get rid of. This does not mean we can't play decent golf or we have to wait to play until the swing flaws are eliminated. Tiger Woods has a less-than-perfect golf swing. Despite his swing flaw, guess what.

OK, I'll guess.  My guess is that Tiger Woods wouldn't be as good as he is if he didn't try to identify his "swing flaws" and correct them. 




Dude, I get your sarcasm. You know I never said that one should not try and elminate them. We can still play good golf while at the same time trying to "perfect" our swing.


I know your "guess what" was rhetorical, but I couldn't resist replying.  I didn't mean for my reply to come across as sarcasm but rather as a serious comment.  It seems to me that Tiger Woods is the antithesis to your thesis that focusing on swing techniqe is the wrong approach and not worthy of discussion on this forum.  Tiger is obviously very aware of his technique and constantly working to improve it.  You can see by the practice swings he takes while playing that he is very conscious of swinging in a certain way or passing through certain positions.  Obviously, he also has very strong mental characteristics to go with his technical obsessions.  That's why he's the best player in the world.  And dude, I never said that we can't play good golf while trying to "perfect" our swings. 

 


Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 9:57am

I worked on some of these drills last night.  Mainly the headcover under the right arm drill with mixed results.  I had a hard time even hitting the ball with the cover under my arm.  I'm not sure if I was focused too much on keeping the cover under my arm or what.  I think I stay pretty connected during my swing though.  I'm not sure how much casting I was doing as I wasn't able to set up the video recorder.  I haven't tried the broom drill but plan to tonight.  I think I may be thinking too much about too many different things during my swing.  I just can't stop myself.  I think if I can get the mental aspect under control, I would be much better off.  Most of the shots I was hitting, I was getting a ball speed between 106 and 110.  That seams a bit low to me.  What's the ideal ball spead for a 6 iron.  I was hitting on the Golf Achiever II.  Thanks again to everyone for thier help.

 



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 10:16am
Originally posted by Links

Nae bother, Yin Planer, twas a doddle fir mi

Hae ye sum Scots in ye, bonnie lad? Yer lallans is braw!

Off to the range tonight, with 2 headcovers, a broom, a metronome and a bucket o' patience.

Thanks guys.



Ma wee granmither was frae Stirling, Links.  The lassie cud aye speik the Scots leid. but ah cannae dae but Sassenach wi a puckle Scots accent. 

Hope you had a good session at the range and that you didn't get too many strange looks with all that praphernalia. 

 


Posted By: Links
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 10:35am

One planer,

You are better at my own language than me!! I knew there had to be a bloodline!

Going to the range tonight.

Sammy, I know what you mean about swinging with the headcover under your arm. It really highlights if you have been swinging with the arms and body disconnected. The first time I tried it I thought Chuck was having a laugh. I felt like I was swinging with a straitjacket on. It does work though if you stick with it.

Don't make the mistake I made though and use your wallet instead of a headcover. My wallet ended up 15 feet down the range. Quite embarrasing retrieving it (and all the cards that fell out).

Links



Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 10:39am

Links,

That's exactly what it felt like...like I was in a straight jacket.  I'll keep working on it.  Thanks buddy.



Posted By: hayes959
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 10:58am

Sammy,

If you struggled with the headcover drill, that is an indication that you are not using rotation and staying connected.  When you get the hang of it, you will sometimes hit the ball better than you do without the headcover.  When I first tried it, I was a spazzzz.  Don't give up.  It takes 21 days of daily dedication to break an old habit and form a new one. 

Some advice.  Don't try 20 different drills daily, looking for an instant fix.  It takes work and time.  Pick a drill and practice it faithfully.  Some of us, me and Flyfishin, have a favorite drill, and we do it at a minimum 3-4 times per week, every week.  Fly and I (kind of catchy isn't it) do the Body Drill.  That headcover drill is a part of Vijay's daily practice routine on the range and is a staple of golf instructor Jimmy Ballard who taught folks like Hal Sutton.

Play well.



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 10:59am
You shouldn't feel like you're in a straight jacket when doing the headcover drill.  I'm wondering if those who feel constricted are under the impression that the headcover needs to stay in place all the way to the finish of the swing.  It's perfectly ok and natural for the headcover to fall out midway into the followthrough when the lead arm folds up and back.  I personally prefer to use a golf glove for the drill.  A golf glove isn't as bulky as a headcover and feels more natural under the arm.  You can also get a similar sensation by simply tucking your shirt into your armpit and holding it there with your upper lead arm.  Scott McCarron does this on every swing when he's playing.


Posted By: Links
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 11:15am

One planer,

I keep the headcover under my arm for the full swing during the drill. By using the headcover rather my shirt it allows a little seperation between my arm and chest on the follow through. i.e. the bulk of the headcover helps, where something thinner feels impossible to keep in.

Am I doing it wrong!

Links



Posted By: Sammy
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 11:50am
Thanks guys.  I think I'll work on the headcover drill until it feels comfortable.  I think I just had too many swing thoughts going through my head last night.  Another thing I'm struggling with is turning with my core. I get real tense in my ab and oblique area when I do this.  Is this the sensation I'm supposed to be feeling?  Sorry to bring in another question into this thread.  Turning with the core is new to me and I seem to be struggling with it as well.  Thanks again guys.  


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Links

One planer,

I keep the headcover under my arm for the full swing during the drill. By using the headcover rather my shirt it allows a little seperation between my arm and chest on the follow through. i.e. the bulk of the headcover helps, where something thinner feels impossible to keep in.

Am I doing it wrong!

Links



Well, it's just my opinion, but I wouldn't use anything as thick as these modern headcovers made for oversize clubheads.  If it's too thick, it creates separation rather than connection.  All you really need is something thin enough that you're aware it's in your armpit between your upper arm and pectoral muscle.   At address, the upper arm is against the outside of the pec.  During the backswing, the lead arm slides up the front of the chest but stays connected to the chest.  Again, the golf glove should fall out near the end of your through-swing when the lead arm folds up and back.  Trying to keep it in place all the way to the finish of the swing leads to "sawing off" the extension or straightening of the right arm which adds thrust to the swing. 

By the way, Jim Hardy would probably disagree with extending the right arm on the target side of the ball.  He talks about having "allegator arms".  He wants the left arm to fold very quickly after impact such that the lead elbow goes immedately to the shirt seam, mirroring the action of the trailing arm on the backswing.  This prevents the right arm from straightening and brings it almost across the stomach afer impact.  I've tried it, and it feels a bit like short-arming the followthrough.  Frankly, I don't like it.

 


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 08 March 2006 at 12:57pm
Here's my 2 cents.  I've never done the drill with a full swing.  When I did do the drill, I would hit half swing 9-irons and stay connected the entire half swing.


Posted By: hayes959
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 7:44am
I mentioned the headcover drill first and much to my embarassment, I have to come clean and state that I do the drill with a glove.  It is called the headcover drill.  My bad.  Much more comfy with a glove and as Planer said , it is ok for the the glove to come out after impact and well into the followthrough.  I often will play several holes, and have on ocassion, played 18 holes ala McCarron tucking my left shirtsleeve prior to every shot.  It works great.


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 12:56pm

Hey, My only problem in my downswing is sometimes I too get my arms disconnected from my body. It doesent happen too opften but when it does I hit high cuts with my driver and with an iron I come to steep on it.

I havent really done anythign about it its like when it does happen I think OOPS I came over it abit but never do anything to stop it.

So now im happy with all of my swing now I will start doing drills to keep it up. I think ill do the headcover drill that sounds good. I use to do that but just forgot about it in the end.

Also to stop it I felt myself drop the club inside but if your doing the one plane swing you obviously dont want to do that

If I was you, Stick to the headcover drill and feel like the rotation of the body in the downswing makes the club get to the ball not the arms or hands.



Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 11 March 2006 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Sammy

<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=3>I seen myself on video for the first time yesterday and I noticed I'm casting the club way to early in my downswing.  I did a search of the forums hoping to find some discussions on this topic but nothing came up.  Does anyone else have this problem?  Are there drills that I can do to work on this? 


I'm also having a problem shanking (I hate to say or even write that word) the ball.  My instructor says it's because I start turning my shoulders too soon rather than letting my arms and hands drop down before turning.  I didn't think I had to worry about my arms and hands dropping down.  From what I understand the 1PS is just rotating back and forward.  Do the hands and arms have to drop down before rotating back through?  I'm trying to concentrate on turning with my core and this seems to help but I still find myself shanking once in awhile.  Can anyone give me suggestions? Thanks in advance.



David Toms casts.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 11 March 2006 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by arbano1

David Toms casts.

Toms only casts in the sense that Jim Hardy suggests you should with a pure Hardy two plane swing.  He casts the club out at the top which creates width (something Hardy thinks is desirable for a 2PS) as in this picture:



But he retains, or possibly even increases the angle between his left forearm and the shaft later on in the swing, like this:



I've seen pictures of him with his left arm at 9:00 o'clock, and then again with his left hand directly in front of his back leg that illustrate what he does better, but you get the idea.

Clubster


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 11 March 2006 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by Clubcaster


Originally posted by arbano1

David Toms casts.

Toms only casts in the sense that Jim Hardy suggests you should with a
pure Hardy two plane swing.  He casts the club out at the top which
creates width (something Hardy thinks is desirable for a 2PS) as in
this picture:



But he retains, or possibly even increases the angle between his left forearm and the shaft later on in the swing, like this:



I've seen pictures of him with his left arm at 9:00 o'clock, and then
again with his left hand directly in front of his back leg that
illustrate what he does better, but you get the idea.

Clubster

You have definitely done your homework and are much more knowledgeable about this subject than I am. With all you know about the ins and outs of casting, why do you think it still gives you problems? Why do you think you still feel you need to even identify with casting so much that you even call yourself Clubcaster?
I am curious to know who told you that casting the club is the biggest obstacle to a good golf swing? These aren't ment to be rhetorical questions. I am genuinely interested in knowing. You are a passionate golfer. It shows.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 12 March 2006 at 9:24am
club caster to me you dont even look like you castthe club. in that picture of your swing by your username on the downswing you as good lag as any amatuer out there. You create fine lag. I dont see the problem.


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 12 March 2006 at 11:06am
Thanks Rick.  The avatar next to my name is from a video I took last fall.  At the time, I was experimenting with not cocking my wrists fully on my backswing, and letting the change of direction from backswing to downswing force my wrists to cock fully.  It looks pretty cool, but it's more of an illusion than anything else because my wrists would actually bounce back (which was kind of painful) and I would still lose the lag prior to impact.  I've never hit the ball worse than when I was hitting that way, so I gave it up.


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 12 March 2006 at 11:08am
well i dont know what to say about your casting. Maybe its alot better than what you actualy think.


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 12 March 2006 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by arbano1

You have definitely done your homework and are much more knowledgeable about this subject than I am. With all you know about the ins and outs of casting, why do you think it still gives you problems? Why do you think you still feel you need to even identify with casting so much that you even call yourself Clubcaster?
I am curious to know who told you that casting the club is the biggest obstacle to a good golf swing? These aren't ment to be rhetorical questions. I am genuinely interested in knowing. You are a passionate golfer. It shows.

To be honest, I don't think any one source is responsible for why I believe casting is such a big obstacle to a good golf swing.  I first became aware of it when Jack Nicklaus talked about it in his "Golf My Way" video.  Since then, a lot of it has just been personal observation.  I say more about all this on my http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net/ClubCasterFaq.htm - FAQ page.

I think the reason I continue to struggle with casting, is because the root cause is something that I do subconciously.  The explanation that you posted in the " http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2255 - Cause of casting - a novel idea " thread was a really good one that may help.  Thanks.

The ClubCaster moniker and website was originally just meant to be a fun way to try to fix my problem.  I do realize though that I have to be careful not to get into a "victim" mindset with all this.

Thank you for your interest, Arba.
 
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