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Mixing Fundamentals within One Plane Swing?

Printed From: One Plane Golf Swing
Category: One Plane Swing Theory
Forum Name: One Plane Swing Theory and Help
Forum Discription: Post questions and thoughts and get help with your one plane swing.
URL: http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2307


Topic: Mixing Fundamentals within 1PS?


Posted By: Lefty
Subject: Mixing Fundamentals within 1PS?
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 11:23am

Some posts made by Jim Hardy on his forum lately have started me thinking about whether there can't be a mixing of fundamentals within the 1PS community.

Specifically, Hardy sees the 1PS as swinging the arms while rotating the body. At first I was quite confused by the "activeness" of the arms in his swing but then I started to realize that I had been actively using my arms on the backswing (taking the hands over the back foot, sliding the arms up and back behind me) but disengaging them all together on the way down.

After closely observing my own swing, I see that the hands can leave the "inner circle" on the downswing and swing more in-to-out if left too passive. I'm wondering whether if you are going to rely on body rotation and passive arms, as CQ teaches, it's necessary to be (a) more upright and (b) bring the club back a little straighter and not so much to the inside? In other words, not mix fundamentals.

I'd be interested in any views on these observations.

Lefty




Replies:
Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 11:41am

I swing very much like this! I turn like the one plane swing but swinging my arms alot too. In my takeaway I feel very much I use just my arms but i turn at the same time which makes my arms more closer to my body. Although my swing looks very much similar to the 2 plane swing with the left arm higher than the shoulder plane, To me it feels very one plane because I feel im turning alot more than what a 2 planer does.

It makes ur arms very active on the DS tho, VEry annoying sometimes!



Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 11:54am

Just read some things on the "secret downswing move" thread on jims forum. And this is exactly what i need to do. Ill do it over time because i have alot of competitions coming up. But he ses he doesent mind people throwing there arms, OK! NOT LIKE SOME THROWING ARMS RIGHT HAND SWATTING ACTION but only as long as there turnign there torso hard through the ball.

Now, BEcause I swing my arms while turning the body my swing is quite armsy. I not gona chnage it because it feels natural and doesent really course me problems BUT when it does i hit pulls and cuts. The reason? because I dont turn my torso hard enough in the DS so my arms get to fast for the body.

WAY HAY! thanks for comign upon that post WOOHOO! So I dotn need to work on stoping using my arms to much in the DS all i have to do is Turn my hips torso harder in the DS.

WICKED! I wotn try it in my comp tommrow tho because im playing well, ill start trying that on the range if my form starts to dip.

RickMAN!

 



Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 11:57am

PLUS! that makes my swing perfect! Now i know that, I know every single little thing what goes wrong with ym swing if im on bad form. And If i get that right that means there wont be 1 thing wrong with my swing. Thats the only thing worng with. Thats given me even more confidence to just go out there and swign natural for the rest of the summer. Im going out there and swigning natural now anyway, but now i can do it with CONFIDENCE!

HAHA, im gona kick ass tommoz!

rick



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 12:15pm

Lefty,

The simple truth of the matter is that passive arms is a bit of a misnomer. Everyone's arms do something, it just may not feel like much. Hardy's one plane swing focuses on the arms and they very actively work around and release aggressively, which is very difficult for the average golfer. If you go back and read his book right from the intro, he stressed how much more athletic the swing was. Of course, since the popularity of the swing has taken off, he's changed his tune, but in his book he made very strong statements about how much more athletically demanding the swing was. The average golfer, 20 hdcp or so, simply doesn't have the time, and some, the necessary coordination, to get all the parts working correctly. When I work with better golfers I focus on a lot more specifics as you can see from my recent discussion and video of my own swing in the Members Vault. Focusing on this with the average golfer just doesn't fly, they need a basic swinging motion first that is far simpler to learn and not as demanding, which is what I offer. When I work with my professionals, strong amateurs and my own swing, the story is a different one.



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: timchong
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Lefty

After closely observing my own swing, I see that the hands can leave the "inner circle" on the downswing and swing more in-to-out if left too passive. I'm wondering whether if you are going to rely on body rotation and passive arms, as CQ teaches, it's necessary to be (a) more upright and (b) bring the club back a little straighter and not so much to the inside? In other words, not mix fundamentals.

I'd be interested in any views on these observations.

Lefty

Lefty,

Consider me to be in the minority for the passive arms.  I don't like being too active in my arms because it either promotes holding onto the shot (late rollover of forearms) or prematurely rolling the right forearm over the left. 

Just recently, I realized that I have been deviating from the proper body rotation just before impact.  The backswing, I had no problems with because I was always making sure the hands go over the rear foot and turning my upper torso 90 degress from address. 

But what about the downswing?  Well, I haven't been clearing the left shoulder aggressively enough and at least 180 degrees from the backswing.  With my leading arm pinned to my side (I often have a headcover tucked under my left armpit), I can pull my arms back inside after impact with passive arms.   And the hands stay well inside or close to the inner circle. 

I guess the visualization I use for clearing the leading shoulder is to imagine a string attached to the top of my left shoulder, with the other end attached to a rock.  The rock being behind my rear foot, the object is to sling the rock around my body by clearing the left shoulder and let the string to at least wrap my body counter-clockwise.

If you've seen Chuck Quinton and Vijay Singh swing, you'll see that they fully rotate their body almost away from the target after hitting the ball.  And the passive arms is evident when you see Vijay Singh lazily swing his arms over his left shoulder then drops due to gravity.

Try turning more to the right (in your case, Lefty) by using your shoulders only.  You may find that it is even more important for you to remain centered with almost no lateral movement in able to catch the ball at the apex of the swing arc (inside-to-inside).  I know all this sounds too simple and I can't stress how critical it was for me to pull my left shoulder back and behind my head a-la lawnmower drill quick and fast. 

For the driver and woods, I clear my shoulders behind the ball.  Irons, a different story.   

Tim C.



Posted By: timchong
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 1:20pm

BTW Lefty,

I'd be cautious about taking Jim Hardy's advice seriously from the forum, only if it doesn't apply to you.  I.e. the secret downswing move involving throwing the arm to the left, I didn't bother trying it... but it may work for others.  He has so many different swingers visiting the forum, asking if a "square" grip is permissible than the strong grip with the one plane swing, or any other slight deviations from the one-plane swing fundamentals.  By the time you take in all those advice, you will probably be so far from the one-plane swing.

Me, I get all the help I need from Jim Hardy's book.  I may not even want to buy his 2nd book since I'm hitting the ball much better with the one-plane swing.



Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 2:15pm
I already kind of throw the arms to the left thats the problem. Only slightly tho. So I was just wondering if that starts causing me problems in the future all ill have to do i turn more in the downswing!


Posted By: timchong
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 2:20pm

Originally posted by RickyHarris

I already kind of throw the arms to the left thats the problem. Only slightly tho. So I was just wondering if that starts causing me problems in the future all ill have to do i turn more in the downswing!

The reason I ignored the so called "Secret downswing move" was because I've tried it and failed.  I was casting, getting stuck behind, flipping my hand over, etc.  It's just too much activeness and adds yet another swing thought during the swing.

I prefer to throw my arms around to the left by using my body turn.

Tim C.



Posted By: mikec
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 2:30pm
Lefty:

One Planer has never claimed there are passive arms. And reading inbetween the lines of Chuck's post, he doesn't either.

They can become  passive, ONCE you know how to USE them right. They don't  NOTdo anything. You have to teach them first, then you can forget about them, ie, be passive.

But from your descriptions of your ball flight and ability, maybe you have already taught them and are now reaching for something that's not there. Just a thought.




Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 2:53pm

One Planer has never claimed there are passive arms. And reading inbetween the lines of Chuck's post, he doesn't either.

No dis respect to oneplaner but is he an instructor? I thought he was just a weekend golfer!



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Lefty

Some posts made by Jim Hardy on his forum lately have started me thinking about whether there can't be a mixing of fundamentals within the 1PS community.

Hardy says you can't mix fundamentals and then goes on to name some examples of hybrid swings.  When you think about tour players, doesn't it seem like mixing the fundamentals is more common than not?

Specifically, Hardy sees the 1PS as swinging the arms while rotating the body. At first I was quite confused by the "activeness" of the arms in his swing but then I started to realize that I had been actively using my arms on the backswing (taking the hands over the back foot, sliding the arms up and back behind me) but disengaging them all together on the way down.

After closely observing my own swing, I see that the hands can leave the "inner circle" on the downswing and swing more in-to-out if left too passive. I'm wondering whether if you are going to rely on body rotation and passive arms, as CQ teaches, it's necessary to be (a) more upright and (b) bring the club back a little straighter and not so much to the inside? In other words, not mix fundamentals.

I'd be interested in any views on these observations.

What would be wrong with it?  It just might work.  Let your ball striking be your friend. 

Lefty



Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:11pm

Ricky,

I'd take Uno's knowledge of the golf swing over just about every instructor I've ever wasted my time with (not many, admittedly, but you get my drift).

For the rest of you, thanks for your views; it's a very interesting subject I think and one that I've largely overlooked or not thought about much. Maybe I'm reaching for things that aren't there - well, at least not in my swing - but I think I'm into something with the inner circle stuff.

There's no question in my mind that I execute the swing better when I take the hands over the back foot, then slide the arms up and back and then come back ensuring the hands stay inside Hardy's inner circle. Of course, the byproduct of this is keeping the back elbow at the back hip at impact, so perhaps it's just another way of ensuring that this key move happens?

CQ, I understand completely and I don't mean to imply you're a one-trick pony at all. In fact, if anything, I'd wish the turn-turn with passive arms was the answer because I find it a hell of a lot easier to perform. That said, the arms have a role to play and I understand now why Jim Hardy said this swing's athletic. I wouldn't, however, have used the term "athletic", which is what confused me when I first read it. Something more like, "naturally co-ordinated", I think is closer to what he means.

Anyway, interesting stuff.

Lefty

 



Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:22pm

Uno,

I think we can both concede that tour players are so talented they make whatever they've got work, rather than having the faultless swing and merely executing it. (see: Eldrick Woods when that right elbow gets waaaay past the hip at impact).

As for ballstriking, when I actively stay within Hardy's inner circle it's really powerful, usually a tight draw. Short, compact and serious compression are words which come to mind. There is no doubt my hands feel engaged (not in a manipulative way, if you can understand that, but involved).

I feel looser and longer when I try for a "rotate the body" swing with really passive arms and the hands doing no more than holding the club. The ball goes nicely, too, with great lag but I suppose it's apples and oranges.

I suppose I feel less can go wrong with the "inner circle" stuff.

Lefty

 



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

Lefty,

The simple truth of the matter is that passive arms is a bit of a misnomer. Everyone's arms do something, it just may not feel like much. Hardy's one plane swing focuses on the arms and they very actively work around and release aggressively, which is very difficult for the average golfer. If you go back and read his book right from the intro, he stressed how much more athletic the swing was. Of course, since the popularity of the swing has taken off, he's changed his tune, but in his book he made very strong statements about how much more athletically demanding the swing was. The average golfer, 20 hdcp or so, simply doesn't have the time, and some, the necessary coordination, to get all the parts working correctly. When I work with better golfers I focus on a lot more specifics as you can see from my recent discussion and video of my own swing in the Members Vault. Focusing on this with the average golfer just doesn't fly, they need a basic swinging motion first that is far simpler to learn and not as demanding, which is what I offer. When I work with my professionals, strong amateurs and my own swing, the story is a different one.



Hardy was right about the greater physical demands of the one plane swing.  It requires flexibility and strength, especially in the core.  I can well imagine that there are guys out there trying it who shouldn't be.

 


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Lefty

Uno,

I think we can both concede that tour players are so talented they make whatever they've got work, rather than having the faultless swing and merely executing it. (see: Eldrick Woods when that right elbow gets waaaay past the hip at impact).

As for ballstriking, when I actively stay within Hardy's inner circle it's really powerful, usually a tight draw. Short, compact and serious compression are words which come to mind. There is no doubt my hands feel engaged (not in a manipulative way, if you can understand that, but involved).

I feel looser and longer when I try for a "rotate the body" swing with really passive arms and the hands doing no more than holding the club. The ball goes nicely, too, with great lag but I suppose it's apples and oranges.

I suppose I feel less can go wrong with the "inner circle" stuff.

Lefty

 



Are you saying you've got two swings that work equally well, the compact one with more hands and the long and loose one with passive hands?  Some guys would kill to have just one of those. 

 


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by RickyHarris

One Planer has never claimed there are passive arms. And reading inbetween the lines of Chuck's post, he doesn't either.

That's a very astute observation, Ricky. 

No dis respect to oneplaner but is he an instructor? I thought he was just a weekend golfer!

Closer to a weekend golfer.  No question about it. 



Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 4:09pm

Sorry no disrespect just thought about why he was usin you as a person to kind of instruct people. You know what I mean! Amatuer coaching amatuer never works, So my coach ses

Well I nto changing nothign in my swing AT ALL, Its the best ever, I think I am very much a hybrid swinger. All  im saying is that if the arms throwing at the top of my swing starts causing me problems I then will have to do something about it and maybe have to turn my torso alot faster through the ball. To be honest i dotn care anymore. I know ive got the talent to get on tour and so does my coach graham and Kevin carpentar from celtic manor (head coach there) Graham ses he promises he will get me on tour.

The reason im on this site playing with my swing alot is im PREPARING for a professional career. Dont care if I never enter the british amatuer championship, dont care if I never win a amatuer competition again. As long as im at the standerd to be playing in qualifyign school by the age of 21!

Ian Poulter, Paul Lawrie didnt have special amatuar careers at all, didnt win british amatuer, didnt enter all this walker cup stuff. Lawrie actually turned pro with a handicap of 4 and 6 or so years later won the british open.

I dont give a crap about these big amatuer events. And thats why i didnt get it when people said michele wie wasent ready to  turn pro because she hadent won any major amatuer events. Its a load of crap!

 



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by mikec

Lefty:

One Planer has never claimed there are passive arms. And reading inbetween the lines of Chuck's post, he doesn't either.

They can become  passive, ONCE you know how to USE them right. They don't  NOTdo anything. You have to teach them first, then you can forget about them, ie, be passive.

But from your descriptions of your ball flight and ability, maybe you have already taught them and are now reaching for something that's not there. Just a thought.




 I haven't noticed that passive arms and hands guarantees a good release.  I think you have to know what happens with the hands and arms on a good shot and train them to do the right things, especially through impact.   I also think the hands and arms can be at least somewhat active in produing power and accuracy if you use them properly.  Nothing is more important than the time the ball stays on the clubface.   You have to get that bit right to hit good shots.
 
 


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by RickyHarris

Sorry no disrespect just thought about why he was usin you as a person to kind of instruct people. You know what I mean! Amatuer coaching amatuer never works, So my coach ses


 



Here's the best advice I can give you, Ricky.  Always question authority, and never be as closed minded as your coach. 

 


Posted By: Knock It Stiff
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 4:56pm

Lefty,

I enjoy reading your posts just as much as One Planer's.  OP without a doubt has the most sound knowledge of the OPS out of all of us forum members--in my opinion.  I assume you play at a high level as well OP.  Your advice is logical and presented in a very clear manner.  I appreciate your insight into the swing.

I truly believe the most important thing to a tight and connected 1PS is the connection of the left arm to the left peck--specifically the lower portion of the left peck (for righties). For months and months I have struggled doing the headcover drill while hitting balls, and it finally dawned on me that my left arm was not staying connected.  Old habits die hard as they say, and I was clearly lifting and disconnecting my arms to the point where my left arm was sliding too high up my left peck. 

Try rotating hard from the top when your lead arm has disconnected and crept a bit too high and you are generally over the top and steep (that's been me).  However, keep that left arm snug to the lower portion of the left peck (from the start of the swing) and then rotate the core left and the club has no choice but to be whipped through impact--as long as you maintain your spine angle. The right elbow up and behind at impact is a result of the hard rotation left and the arms being dragged through--I don't try and keep my elbow up and back.  It just ends up there!

I also like tugging my shirt sleeve into my armpit (as One Planer and Hayes have discussed) when I practice.  If the shirt sleeve starts to creep out during my swing I feel it and will stop the swing because I know I've started to lift my arms and lose connection.  I start again and focus on my connection. 

My swing feels so short--but it's really not.  It's just compact with no wasted movements.  Feel vs. real!  I can hit balls with the headcover drill now, and it's only because I'm truly connected.  When my swing gets loose and long the headcover falls out at the top of my backswing or even halfway back. 

Lefty, you are obviously a very talented golfer.  Go with what works, man.  If tight and compact with the hands tracing the inner circle gives you the nice ball flight you want then stick with it.  Take it from another "tinkerer."   

Dean



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 5:24pm

First off, Ricky. Please don't disrespect members on this forum. You say a lot of stuff that is tolerated here, but less than desirable and everyone cuts you some slack. In regards to OnePlaner, you have no idea what you are talking about. No, he's not a professional, but he is a SUPERB ball striker who I have taught personally and you would be very lucky to hit the ball with as much compression and consistency as he does. As for his knowledge and overall understanding of the golf swing, in my opinion, he knows as much as any member here and you'd be wise beyond your years to listen very carefully to what he has to offer in the way of advice.

Second, the arms - can they really be passive. The answer - absolutely. Obviously, they are swinging up on plane and around your body, but they need not be the star of the show. Regarding the downswing and the inner circle - that is exactly HOW they get there. If your arms aren't passive at the top they have to be "pulled" down on plane which ends up in them being either in front of your hip and out over the top of the plane. The best secret that every great ball striker knows - the arms are passive during the transition which gives them time to fall down on plane and lets the swing "sort itself out" before coming into impact. Once they fall down on plane they are still behind you, and if you are rotating aggressively, guess where they end up, in your right pocket. Keep turning and do nothing with them they work beautifully on Hardy's inner circle without conscious effort.

Lefty, video tape your swing, scrounge together the $15 and post it in the Members Vault. I'm pretty sure you would find the answers you are looking for.



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: bottomsup
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 6:25pm
Well, I'm up to about 250 yds driving distance now. Use to be about 225 yds on a regular basis(for many years, I'm 62 yrs old, 5'9" 165 lbs). Doesn't sound possible does it? My hokey swing, which I've posted, seems to work. Somehow(?) I've gotten rotational and my arms, while not entirely passive, seem to whip around my body. I just don't think about them very much any more, which is probably the feeling I'm looking for? The BS is still a little off, but it is getting closer. Played nine yesterday, 45 deg., 15 mph winds, and hit all 7 fairways with both golf balls(yahoo!). The swing isn't perfect, won't be, but I sure am happy. If you can somehow get rotational with a steady head, all the rest is window dressing. Keep your L arm welded to your pec on BS, rotate around steady head on DS. It's a can't miss formula. Stop worrying about all the other stuff.  Fortunately, I could chip, putt, and get out of sand traps. Just lacked distance with driver, which I've solved.


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 6:45pm

I didnt disrespect him! I know one planer has good understanding on the golf swing! Its just in my opinion Amatuer teaching Amatuer doesent work! But hey it happens in every golf forum on the planet so what can I do about it!

I still always think the flow and rythum drill is the best drill in the world! Plus the right foot back drill! I think in the flow and rythum drill you use the same amount of arms and turn in your swing, which is obviously why it makes the swing look so flowing and good rythum because everything is working together. arms are passive and everything!

Ive got abit of a Davis LOve routine, Ive done it since i found the rythum and flow drill, I step behind the ball (at the moment when im behind the ball I swing doing the right foot back drill just to somehow get in my brain not to come over the plane with arms in the downswing) and I pick otu a spot 3ft after the ball. I then step up to the side of the ball like davis love do the rythum and flow drill swing once, Flow into my adress position, do a flowing practice takeaway (although i not worrying where the clubhead is when im doing the practice takeaway its just to keep the club moving) and then just place the club down and swing straight away really feeling everythign is natural and flowing together do a nice flowing swing and the arms feel passive in the downswing.

This helps me keep all my body synchronized and the arms passve (spelling, actually i think i mihgt of spelled something correctly)

I never stop moving from once i take the club out of the bag. I thought i would say this because I think it would help with using the right amount of arms and body in the swing because your flowing and it really helps keeping the arms flowing intime with the body and passive! Does anyone know what i mean? Im crap at explaining things but I hope you understand me!



Posted By: timchong
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

Second, the arms - can they really be passive. The answer - absolutely. Obviously, they are swinging up on plane and around your body, but they need not be the star of the show. Regarding the downswing and the inner circle - that is exactly HOW they get there. If your arms aren't passive at the top they have to be "pulled" down on plane which ends up in them being either in front of your hip and out over the top of the plane. The best secret that every great ball striker knows - the arms are passive during the transition which gives them time to fall down on plane and lets the swing "sort itself out" before coming into impact. Once they fall down on plane they are still behind you, and if you are rotating aggressively, guess where they end up, in your right pocket. Keep turning and do nothing with them they work beautifully on Hardy's inner circle without conscious effort.

Chuck, you have written the perfect post I've been looking for the past year.  As far as feel goes, I know my arms are passive enough for it to fall within the inner circle on the downswing.  Too much tension or activeness in the arms makes me either get stucked behind for slicing or flip over for hooking! 

For those who believe that the arms are active on the downswing -- yeah, I agree.  Because my torso is making the arms active by pulling it around my body. 

Tim C.  



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 7:41pm
Thanks for those kind words, Chuck.

I go through stretches when I hit very solid shots.  That's not to say I don't hit the wayward shot now and then.  I accept it as part of my imperfect humanness. 

Here's what I try to do with the one plane swing.   I set up centered between my feet.  I turn my upper back to the target with my left arm across my chest.  Then I shift forward a little and turn my body to the left as fast as possible but in balance.  I get my body out of the way so my arms can swing through freely and up the plane on the target side of the ball.  That's all there is to it, really.

I confess to feeling some activity in my arms and hands in the impact zone.  I don't think it's passivity but something more like controlled thrust.  That's when I hit my best shots.  My misses happen when I get above the plane coming down and release my right hand too soon, which is similar to what Chuck is talking about lately.


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by RickyHarris

Its just in my opinion Amatuer teaching Amatuer doesent work!


That all depends on the amateur.  With One Planer you have someone who has been playing the game for 50 years (I think that's right).  He's a good player too.


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 7:47pm
I believe the term "passive arms" is a figure of speech. It is easy to overcook this concept. What happens to pasta when you overcook it,can also ahappen to you arms if you think of them as noodles.

The way I interpret passive arms is to not lead the downswing with the arms but with the core instead. Is that a correct interpretation?

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by RickyHarris

I never stop moving from once i take the club out of the bag. I thought i would say this because I think it would help with using the right amount of arms and body in the swing because your flowing and it really helps keeping the arms flowing intime with the body and passive! Does anyone know what i mean? Im crap at explaining things but I hope you understand me!



Ricky, I understand you perfectly and like a lot of what you said, especially the bit about flowing and keeping some motion going as you prepare to hit your shot.  Motion keeps tension at bay.


 


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by arbano1

I believe the term "passive arms" is a figure of speech. It is easy to overcook this concept. What happens to pasta when you overcook it,can also ahappen to you arms if you think of them as noodles.

The way I interpret passive arms is to not lead the downswing with the arms but with the core instead. Is that a correct interpretation?


That's exactly right, Arbano.  The body swings the arms.

 


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by flyfishin

Originally posted by RickyHarris

Its just in my opinion Amatuer teaching Amatuer doesent work!


That all depends on the amateur.  With One Planer you have someone who has been playing the game for 50 years (I think that's right).  He's a good player too.


Close enough, Fly.  It's 55 years as of this year.    

Knock:  Thanks for the kind words.  You're on the right track with connection.
 


Posted By: dougw
Date Posted: 18 March 2006 at 10:01pm

Ricky,

You need to get a "spell checker" on your computer.



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Pray for a good crop, but keep hoein' while your prayin'


Posted By: monkeyboy
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 3:49am
Originally posted by RickyHarris

Its just in my opinion Amatuer teaching Amatuer doesent work!



You need to have a word with yourself, buddy.  Firstly, you've got a coach.  Listen to them.  They might not teach a one plane swing, but they can see your swing in the flesh and, far more importantly, your ball flight.  I would take this over comments made on a forum based on a shakey mpeg any day.  Don't confuse yourself: your coach is in the best position to comment on your swing, recommend changes and monitor your progress.

You also have to realise what it takes to make it in golf.  I was the highest handicap in my county junior team being off scratch when I was 16.  All but two of us from the team of ten have turned pro: one is in the top 100 in the world, the rest are selling tee pegs or working on building sites.  All enjoying life, but not in the top 100.  What was so special about him?  He was the best putter, even then.

I'm a better putter off 4 now than I was when I was off scratch and hitting 15 or 16 greens a round, not caring about the score.  I was into the strike and the ball flight, didn't listen to people when they told me to practice my putting and would head off to read Hogan for the 80th time and hit balls for hours.

Now I don't have time to practice much and am very happy when people on this forum offer advice, answer my queries or confirm my understanding of the golf swing.  I am grateful they find the time and I agree with a lot of what is said.

If you are serious about turning pro, listen to your coach and practice your putting.  Like a pro would.



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:17am
Originally posted by monkeyboy



I'm a better putter off 4 now than I was when I was off scratch and hitting 15 or 16 greens a round, not caring about the score.  I was into the strike and the ball flight, didn't listen to people when they told me to practice my putting and would head off to read Hogan for the 80th time and hit balls for hours.




That sounds like my story, too, Monkey.  When I leared to play back in the 1950's, all I wanted to do was read "Five Lessons" and hit full shots.  Empty the shag back, pick the balls up, and empty it again, over and over.  Dig it out of the dirt like Hogan did.  It wasn't all bad.  I became a pretty good ball striker.  But in the end it was limiting.  If I could do it over again, I'd spend more time practicing the scoring shots on and around the green and from 100 yards in. 

Take note, Ricky!! 

And one other thing, Ricky.  Prepare yourself for a good career outside of golf in case the pro golf gig doesn't work out.  Camilo Villegas was an Academic All American at Florida University.  He hit the books.  There's your role model.

 


Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:29am
Great point OP. I had an academic scholarship as well as my golf scholarship in college and it certainly made life easier AFTER college as I didn't have tens of thousands of dollars in student loans like so many of my friends, even after going to a private school. Another thing to learn from Camillo, he hits the ball a ton and stops well, well short of parallel at the top with his driver.

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Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:46am

OP,

I think it doesn't get talked about enough that this swing DOES require more athleticism without question. In order for the golfer not to actively use his arms, he needs a lot more speed with his body and that body speed takes muscle to generate and stabilize the entire movement. Hardy stuck to his guns about this for 20+ years and then also said the same multiple times in his book. A perfect example of this is Rod Pampling this week. I have studied his swing for several years and it is very powerful with a great deal of body speed and arm speed. I think his overall tempo is just about perfect for a one plane swing, which is fairly quick. You are relying on a lot of dynamic tension in the big muscles and it's like stretching one of those really thick rubber bands vs. stretching a skinny one. With the thick one, you need to really quickly and aggressively stretch it to store energy which it will then quickly release. The skinny one can be stretched slowly but then doesn't have the recoil like the thick one. The one plane swing is like the thick rubber band - fast and aggressive and always in motion.



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

OP,

I think it doesn't get talked about enough that this swing DOES require more athleticism without question. In order for the golfer not to actively use his arms, he needs a lot more speed with his body and that body speed takes muscle to generate and stabilize the entire movement. Hardy stuck to his guns about this for 20+ years and then also said the same multiple times in his book. A perfect example of this is Rod Pampling this week. I have studied his swing for several years and it is very powerful with a great deal of body speed and arm speed. I think his overall tempo is just about perfect for a one plane swing, which is fairly quick. You are relying on a lot of dynamic tension in the big muscles and it's like stretching one of those really thick rubber bands vs. stretching a skinny one. With the thick one, you need to really quickly and aggressively stretch it to store energy which it will then quickly release. The skinny one can be stretched slowly but then doesn't have the recoil like the thick one. The one plane swing is like the thick rubber band - fast and aggressive and always in motion.



Absolutely right, Chuck.  The one plane swing is physical.   It made me think about Hogan.  He had a very quick tempo, and he wrote about a thick rubber band attached to his left hip and anchored behind him.  During the backswing, the band is stretched taught.  Then it snaps back during the transition, pulling the hips rapidly around to the left with the upper torso responding.  The strength required for the one plane swing is the strength that enables you to turn your body fast and in balance.  The faster you can get your body out of the way (cleared to the left) the faster the arms will come through and the stronger the ball flight will be. 

Just one caution:  balance should never be sacrificed to tempo.  Speed without balance isn't very effective.   Balance is a function of strength.  One planers should work on the core muscles for speed and the legs for support and balance.

 


Posted By: Skully
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 10:10am
 Wow, when did this thread happen? I don't even know where to start!

  Ricky, Ricky, Ricky... Don't take this as an insult, but you are a naive little kid. We all were at one point. While I may be jealous of your youth, I'm really glad that I don't have your mindset. I think you might even have a case of A.D.D. (attention deficit disorder), and should probably get some help for that. It's very common, and not something to be embarrased about, but knowing about it can help alot.

   I understand your point about amateurs teaching amateurs, but it really depends on the amateur. You really have to develop whats referred to as "selective hearing". Once you get married you'll know what i mean.    To be blunt; This is a golf forum. If you don't want to hear what amateurs have to say about the golf swing, then what the hell are you doing here? This forum for the most part, is alot of guys trying to help each other out and learning a bit themselves. That's about it. Everyone here is going to listen to their coach 1st, but can get alot of feedback from people here. When one of us has a breakthrough, or setback, it can rub off on everyone else and we can all learn together. That is the point of it all, IMO.

  Lefty, I think you are on the right track with what you're doing, and I'd say just keep at it.

   I totally agree with 1plnr, that the arms and hands can only be totally passive once they know what they are supposed to do. With me, if i forget about the arms and hands completely and just turn, the clubhead ends up stuck in the ground about 2 inches behind the ball. Not good. I keep them fairly passive, but make sure that i get to a good impact position (hands leading clubhead) and then i can compress the snot out of it. I hope to someday forget about them completely, but I'm not there yet.


Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 10:39am

The term "passive" is definetly being misused and misunderstood at this point by some. They have to swing up and behind properly. If they do that, I can assure you they need do very little to nothing on the way down. End up in the wrong spot on the way back and at the top and yes, you can hit horrible shots. If you are having to make manipulations on the way down, you didn't put yourself in a position at the top that allows you do unwind while doing nothing. Most everyone I teach thinks their backswing and top of swing position is way better than it really is, but almost all make significant deviations from the fundamentals, whether it be swaying off the ball (very common), rolling their wrists early in the takeaway (even more common), getting across the line at the top (super common) or swinging too long (way too common) etc. Master the fundamentals and you're well on your way to learning how to take your arms and hands out of the swing and taking that timing out of the equation.

Keep in mind also that most golfers are way overactive with their arms throughout the swing, particularly during the transition, so that is another part of the reason why I emphasize keeping the arms passive. If you don't have a problem with the arms taking over the body, then you can do whatever you want with them, but I see the opposite in 9 out of every 10 golfers every day.



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: 01ragtop
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 11:11am
I think most golfers my slef included, don't really know what lag feels like.  We employ our hands too soon and destroy our swings before we really get a chance.  Chuck can correct me, but I think it was he who says to not "set" the club too early in the backswing.  For me, if I set the club latter in the backswing I can maintain the lag longer throughout the downswing, and yes I do "Use" my hands at impact.  All readers should know that I also follow the Stuart Appleby model when it comes to the arms in the downswing.(right arm a little more straight at impact)  My point is however, that if you set the hands late in the backswing it will be easier to keep them set in the downswing.  I "FEEL" like my hands don't completely set the club Until I am almost at the very top of my backswing. Then just as, or maybe even a little before, they fully set I start my transition into the downswing.  This feeling helps stretch that rubberband.

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Golf is 90% mental, and 20% physical!


Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

OP,


I think it doesn't get talked about enough that this swing DOES require more athleticism without question. In order for the golfer not to actively use his arms, he needs a lot more speed with his body and that body speed takes muscle to generate and stabilize the entire movement. Hardy stuck to his guns about this for 20+ years and then also said the same multiple times in his book. A perfect example of this is Rod Pampling this week. I have studied his swing for several years and it is very powerful with a great deal of body speed and arm speed. I think his overall tempo is just about perfect for a one plane swing, which is fairly quick. You are relying on a lot of dynamic tension in the big muscles and it's like stretching one of those really thick rubber bands vs. stretching a skinny one. With the thick one, you need to really quickly and aggressively stretch it to store energy which it will then quickly release. The skinny one can be stretched slowly but then doesn't have the recoil like the thick one. The one plane swing is like the thick rubber band - fast and aggressive and always in motion.



What I am hearing is that the one-plane swing requires a more aggressive turn back and through very much like coiling a thick rubberband. What would one need to do to develop the athleticism required to become a good one-planer? I think I am a fairly strong guy at 5 foot 10, 205 lbs. I play soccer, tennis, have played football, bodysurf, have ran triathlons and also strength train a great deal. When I work on the one-plane swing I do notice how much more tension there is compared to a two-plane swing.

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What's my target?


Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 12:48pm

Look what I started! Very cool thread, I think, and I thank you all for contributing.

Anyway, I want to stress this: I'm honestly trying to forget about theory in my own swing. I'm happy to discuss it with others in this forum because it's fun and interesting to me. But the real ephiphany I've had over the past six months - and this is entirely due to you, CQ, so I'm in your debt  - has been to just find a swing (not perfect, not the most aesthetic but just a fairly repeatable one) and stick with it.

My tinkering is very, very minor compared to what it was - ie, the reality of "passive" arms as discussed here. This has been somewhat confusing to me in the past because I felt I may have been doing something "wrong" and I was intrigued by Jim Hardy's description of the swing as one in which the arms swing around a rotating body. This, actually, is more what I feel and, more importantly, it gets me through the shot much cleaner. But I wondered whether it was "right". (I'm still working on purging myself of the notion of there being one secret, magical way to swing a club!)

Of course, if you feel it and the shot's good, then it is right!

It's been a really rewarding journey. I've resisted all temptation to revert to my former self - the guy lost in the search for the perfect swing - and concentrated on hitting the ball somewhere out on the fairway and somewhere on the green and take it from there. I know I have a good swing. If it's somewhat off, I just try to exaggerate somewhat the fundamentals. ie, I'll turn my shoulders a little steeper or really concentrate on staying centred (my two tendencies).

The real change, though, has been my improved consistency. The back-to-back 70-86 rounds are long gone. My scores float around the low to mid 70s and some days I shoot better but - and here's the real epiphany - when I do, I don't feel like I'm hitting it that much better.

The other day I hit a shot into a green with a pw and thought it was very average and yet it was 12 feet away. Nothing wrong with that. I honestly used to think if it wasn't inside 6 feet with a wedge, it was a bad shot. Of course, I wouldn't ever make the putt because I was still badgering myself about what went wrong with the iron shot! Or, put another way, when I'd hit it tight with a great shot and miss the putt, I wasn't that upset because it was a great shot and I basked in that. Now, I try to put a 3 on the card. A monumental change in outlook.

Even though I rarely practice at all, my short game has improved a ton since I've stopped obsessing about the perfect swing. Putting, as always, comes and goes. But I've come to a peace with this, too: I can hit a good putt but it won't go in and I can mis-read/mis-hit a putt and it does go in. I am determined, however, to make myself a better putter, I just don't get too down on myself when I miss.

Anyway, I suppose the irony in all of this is that I'm a better golfer without being a better golfer, if you get what I mean.

Fairways and Greens,

Lefty

  



Posted By: Knock It Stiff
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 12:58pm

Chuck/OP,

The thick rubber band analogy is awesome!  That's what I feel like when I'm hitting the ball great.  I feel like my left hip (I'm a righty) gets snapped behind me and the upper torso, arms and club just follow along.  It's not a violent snap--rather a controlled yet aggressive snap.  Rod Pampling is a great example of this.  He looks like he's swing so fast, yet it's completely under control.  It's just a great example of a golfer who builds up tremendous coil and then unleashes the coil in control and in balance but with tremendous energy.

Dean



Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 1:48pm

Well, My backup if i dont do well in golf is that i will go to a Golf College get qualifitcations with like a club pro, or coach and do that.

If im a club pro and get paid £20,000 a year (whcih is around what they get i think?) I will be a happy man. I know clubpro isnt for alot of people, stuuck in shop. But I wouldent care because im around golf clubs! I can do some coaching! and ill be happy!

The man who said about putting is very important and 100 yards and in. I cant agree more, I practice my putting around 1 hour a day. Although I wouldent think it the way I putted today! I played in my first comp of the year today and it didnt turn out great! The best gross score in the comop was +9 It was cold and windy! I shot +11 OUCH!! My ball strikin was just AWESOME! I hit alor of greens but couldent make a putt! and the greens i missed i couldent get up and down! Mainly because i was finding myself in divots and wet mud all dayPlus I hit a great drive on 13 and then absolutely ripped a 3 wood but the wind changed in mid air and ended up 15 yards left of green in the pond! an 8 on that hole UH HUM! So if my putting was better and diddnt make that stupid 8 thats down to a 2-3 handicap! Say then it was better conditions! Easily under par!

And when I was on about flowign into all ym shots, Nick O'Hern is probably the best at this, He has great flow to his swing and pre shot routine!



Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 1:59pm

CQ,

Funny you should mention Pampling because he's one of Gary Edwin's many Aussie disciples. The swing Edwin teaches is about as simple as it gets and is predicated on very quiet legs, no sway on the backswing and hard rotation of the upper body. Interestingly, this got Peter Lonard - who took this to heart to such an extent he actually "locked" his kneecaps - into the top 20 or so in the world at which point he left Edwin a year or so ago to get "better". That's Lead-better. Lonard's missing cuts with the best of 'em now.

Lefty

 



Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 4:33pm

Originally posted by One Planer

And one other thing, Ricky.  Prepare yourself for a good career outside of golf in case the pro golf gig doesn't work out.  Camilo Villegas was an Academic All American at Florida University.  He hit the books.  There's your role model. 

One,

I know you've talked about your college playing days a little bit in this forum before, but it might be helpful to Rick, and other new members that haven't read that, if you could share that information again. 

I would suspect that you aspired to be a professional golfer when you were young too, did you not?  I hope you don't mind me asking, but would you mind telling us at what point you realized that professional golf was not in the cards for you, and what career path you ultimately followed?

Thank you,
Clubster



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 5:39pm
The passive arms bit ultimately comes down to controlling the release of the club. In a Hardy one plane swing, you release everything hard, left forearm, right hand, body, club, etc. It is in fact dependent on this motion. He advocates "firm hands" to help control all this aggression. The problem is physics. At some point, controlling all that speed and power leads to what most every one planer struggles with, a case of the left to lefts. Watch Pernice Jr., he's a classic example. Swinging that hard left requires that things are timed properly and that everything is working at full speed all the time. Controlling the release of the club is one of the most challenging aspects in the game that every single player struggles with at some point. The more aggressive, the tougher to control. As an amateur, controlling this much fury while remaining balanced and in control of the other multitude of fundamentals in the swing is a challenge at best. Having your arms passive not only allows the laws of physics to work in your favor, but gives most golfers more clubhead speed because antagonistic muscles aren't fighting each other and you make more consistent contact. It takes a lot of balls to keep the hands educated, you don't just train them once and "you got it." They require much higher upkeep and the low maintenance of the passive arms is very desirable for most, not to mention the host of other positive benefits.

-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Clubcaster

Originally posted by One Planer

And one other thing, Ricky.  Prepare yourself for a good career outside of golf in case the pro golf gig doesn't work out.  Camilo Villegas was an Academic All American at Florida University.  He hit the books.  There's your role model. 

One,

I know you've talked about your college playing days a little bit in this forum before, but it might be helpful to Rick, and other new members that haven't read that, if you could share that information again. 

I would suspect that you aspired to be a professional golfer when you were young too, did you not?  I hope you don't mind me asking, but would you mind telling us at what point you realized that professional golf was not in the cards for you, and what career path you ultimately followed?

Thank you,
Clubster



I'll give it a go, Caster.  I played on the Ohio State University golf team back in the early 1960's.  Hard to believe that is was over 40 years ago.  I had two teamates at Ohio State who went on to achieve some fame in golf, namely Jack Nicklaus and Tom Weiskopf.  They were never on the team together, but I was on the team with both of them because I was in between them in age.  Jack is a year older than I, and Tom is two years younger. 

Jack dropped out of school after his junior year.  His grades were marginal, and he probably would have flunked out in the last quarter of his junior year if he hadn't dropped out.  He wasn't a very dedicated student.  that's not to say he was dumb.  He just wasn't very interested in school.  He was all about golf.  Two years later, he applied to come back to finsh his schooling and get his degree.  The universtiy denied him the opportunity, supposedly because he told them that he would need some time off for tournament golf, especially the Masters.  It was the wrong decision.  They should have let him come back.  If he had flunked out, it would have been on him, not on the university.  Anyway, a few decades later, Ohio State gave him an honorary degree.  It was the least they could have done.  During the years when he was winning all those majors, the university unabashedly claimed him as a "Buckeye".  In fairness to him, he thought of himself as a Buckeye, too.

Tom Weiskopf was an even worse student than Jack.  He flunked out after golf season his sophomore year.  That was my senior year.

While playing with those guys was a wonderful time in my life and a great experience, it disabused me of any dreams I had of a future on the pro golf tour.  I could see that there was a gap between what they could do with a golf ball and what I could do.  They could hit shots that I couldn't match.  I tried hard to get up to their level of play, but it just wasn't in the cards for me.  There was no effort gap, but there was certainly a talent gap.

So it turned out to be for the best.  I could have wasted a lot of time chasing a dream that was never going to come true.  I focused on my studies, got my degree, and put a pretty good career together in the automobile business and later in the computer business.  I made pretty good money and retired at 62.  I never lost interest in golf, though.  I think I'll be playing until they put lifeless corpse in the furnace. 

Ricky, I hope you've read this far.  There's a lesson here for you.  Chase your dream, absolutely, but prepare yourself for something else in case it doesn't work out.  I don't want to discourage you, but the odds are not in your favor.  That's not to say you won't make it, but you need to know how difficult it is and how good the competition is.  If it looks like the pro golf tour isn't going to work out, you need to have another plan for your life and be preparing for it.  I saw that you'd be satisfied as a club pro and teacher at 20,000 UK pounds per year of income.  That's not a very good living, particularly if you have a wife and kids to support.  I don't know how much club pros make in the UK.  I suspect there are club pros at the top clubs in the UK doing far better than that financially.  If your fallback plan is to be a club professional, you'll need to have outstanding people skills and excellent communication skills to go with your golf game.  You have a lot to learn in those areas, mate, so get to work on them now.  And good luck to you no matter where life takes you.

 


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 7:16pm

People are probably going to say, Step out into the real world you need lots of money these days, but id be happy with 20,000 pound a year no problem. Id be involved in a job I love!

Just like to say why did you say this I don't want to discourage you, but the odds are not in your favor. Can i ask, Have you ever seen me play? no, Does my handicap matter, No Your handicap never ses how much talent you have (poulter turned pro on a 4 handicap, Paul Lawrie turned pro on a 4 handicap, Lawrie or poulter had NONE succesful amatuer careers AT ALL! they didnt play bug all competitive golf, because they felt they needed to Prepare for pro golf by practicing, also i think all these people who think you need to be playin in british amatuer championships or playing national level are speaking crap. I played with a 15 year old welsh team player yesterday when i was playing for my county. He was totally SHIT! absolutely SHOCKING! ive played with many welsh international junior players and I have as much game or even better game than them! Im afriad to say but because wales is such a small country there is ALOT! of favouritism!)

Thats just really annoyed me now !!!

I am very much like nicklaus and tom, Ive got no interest in school! I have good grades in school but hardly try! Thats why after june I wont be in school (u can leave school at 16 in britain) I wont be 16 till august! My plan then is to just practice, practice and practice. Play on the Elite Pro tour next year! And work my way up! Also in britain once your over 21 you can go to university for free as a mature student and get a degree!

Plus the reasing poulter didnt get into national team and stuff, Was because he didnt want too, but also because people didnt like him! Why? Because he said what he thought without care! and had a unique style!

I think maybe you lot should stop judging my golf game and me in person, by listenin to me on a golf forum! Come and play with me in wales this summer and see me yourself you may be suprised i come across a very different person and may be suprised with my game.

Cheerio!

 



Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 7:18pm

 oneplaner: If your fallback plan is to be a club professional, you'll need to have outstanding people skills and excellent communication skills to go with your golf game.

who ses u need a GREAT game to be a club pro! ive beatin my club pro on a few occasions!



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by RickyHarris

 oneplaner: If your fallback plan is to be a club professional, you'll need to have outstanding people skills and excellent communication skills to go with your golf game.

who ses u need a GREAT game to be a club pro! ive beatin my club pro on a few occasions!



Leave it to you to focus on the wrong part of that sentence.  I didn't say you need a GREAT golf game to be a club pro.  I said you need outstanding people skills and excellent communications skills.  You have neither, so you better plan on making it on tour because no golf club would put up with your ignorance and attitude. 

Now I'm finished communicating with you, Ricky, and it wouldn't surprise me if the other people of this forum are as well.
 


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 7:36pm
Cool!


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 7:40pm

cant understand people who judge people over the internet! its like coachign over the internet, its hard, cant see ball flight, Maybe not the same swign as normal because your swinging in the garden!

Same as with a person, Cant see them, cant see what there personailty is like, Dont know there communicating skills nor people skills HAHAHAHAHA.

 



Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by RickyHarris

cant understand people who judge people over the internet! its like coachign over the internet, its hard, cant see ball flight, Maybe not the same swign as normal because your swinging in the garden!


Same as with a person, Cant see them, cant see what there personailty is like, Dont know there communicating skills nor people skills HAHAHAHAHA.


 



Ricky, I am not sure what your plans are if the golf pro thing doesn't pan out. It better not be to become an English teacher.
Here is something you may find helpful. http://www.fabjob.com/golfer.asp

In the mean time, stop being such a pain in the ass.

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What's my target?


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:02pm

HAHA ok ill stop being a pain in the ass as logn as you lot beleive in me and encourage me instead of saying confidence destroying sentences like " very unlikly u will become a tour pro" maybe it is, but i bet you people said that too a number of young players who are now tour players. So actually dont stop sayign stuff like that because it will just make u even more suprised when i come on this website in 7 years and say " Hay guys, I proved you wrong and I have got my European Tour Card!

HEHE, Plus I wouldent wna be an english teacher because they have smelly breaths



Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:11pm

Fellas, fellas, fellas ... Ricky is 15. He averages eight posts a day though mostly he needs but, say, far less than an eighth of that number to adequately communicate what it is he has to say. Beyond all of that, I fear we are holding him to standards we'd apply to ourselves.

Lefty

 



Posted By: gwlee7
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:22pm

Ricky,

The written language is a form of COMMUNICATION so I can judge what your communication skills are like.  Also, if you are anything like the sentiments in the way you write/post on this forum,  my judgment would be that I would not choose to be around you for very long.   If you came on here in your volumous posting asking questions and then actually being quiet long enough to respectfully get the answers, it would be one thing. Yet, young Ricky, you come across as little more than an attention hungry teenager who has a computer and too much time on his hands. 

I for one have been extremely patient with your rambling style of disrespect and attention seeking.  It would be nice if you would just be quiet for a little while and read rather than feel the need to post some type of response in practically every thread on the forum.  Like Arbano, I'm going to ask you to stop being such a pain in the ass but, I'm not going to put a "smiley" on it because I am not playing.



Posted By: arbano1
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by gwlee7

Ricky,


The written language is a form of COMMUNICATION so I can judge what your communication skills are like.  Also, if you are anything like the sentiments in the way you write/post on this forum,  my judgment would be that I would not choose to be around you for very long.   If you came on here in your volumous posting asking questions and then actually being quiet long enough to respectfully get the answers, it would be one thing. Yet, young Ricky, you come across as little more than an attention hungry teenager who has a computer and too much time on his hands. 


I for one have been extremely patient with your rambling style of disrespect and attention seeking.  It would be nice if you would just be quiet for a little while and read rather than feel the need to post some type of response in practically every thread on the forum.  Like Arbano, I'm going to ask you to stop being such a pain in the ass but, I'm not going to put a "smiley" on it because I am not playing.



Smiley face removed.

-------------
What's my target?


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 19 March 2006 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by Lefty

I fear we are holding him to standards we'd apply to ourselves.


 



Lefty,

It's about time somebody held him to some standards, don't you think?  

       
       
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