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Stuart Appleby video clips

Printed From: One Plane Golf Swing
Category: One Plane Swing Theory
Forum Name: One Plane Swing Theory and Help
Forum Discription: Post questions and thoughts and get help with your one plane swing.
URL: http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1816
Printed Date: 05 September 2006 at 8:10pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Stuart Appleby video clips


Posted By: Clubcaster
Subject: Stuart Appleby video clips
Date Posted: 11 January 2006 at 11:20pm
A lot of us have expressed our admiration of Stuart Appleby's swing, so One Planer has been kind enough to provide the following video clips for our viewing pleasure.  Enjoy.

http://home.comcast.net/~clubcaster2/Appleby/ApplebyDriver.swf - Driver Down-the-line :




http://home.comcast.net/~clubcaster2/Appleby/ApplebyPitchingWedge.swf - Pitching Wedge Down-the-line :



Those that want to save these clips to their hard drive can do so by right clicking on the links above the videos, and selecting "Save Link as...".

If having embedded videos in a post like this makes it difficult for those that do not have high speed internet access to open up the thread, or if it causes anyone grief in any way, please let me know.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net

Edit: Video clip links updated

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http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Replies:
Posted By: nuke99
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 3:07am
Lol great stuff man.

And you got a great swing yourself


-------------
Swing Early May 06 Under Construction by Chuck. Getting CLOSE..


Posted By: novelt
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 9:01am

Is that his face-on swing in your Avatar.

Thanks for the vid.  The only thing I am curious about in Stuart's swing is the lack of connection with his left arm so soon after impact.  In my mind that could lead to some timing issues.  Or maybe not...perhaps he just generates so much arm and club speed with his body so open at impact that this is just the natural movement of his left arm.



-------------
Novelty - Something new and unusual; an innovation.


Posted By: jpresti
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 2:55pm
Do you happen to have a face on view of his swing? 


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 3:20pm

Originally posted by jpresti

Do you happen to have a face on view of his swing? 

No, sorry.  These clips were sent to me by One Planer to post to the forum.  If anyone does have a face-on view of his swing please let us know.  I think Chuck said in the Member's Forum that he's going to be posting videos of Appleby in the Member's Vault soon.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: mikec
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 5:57pm
Check out Golfonline.com for face on view.

Anybody notice how he "springs" the driver shaft at the top of the BS? 

Chuck or One Planer, is this from simply leaving the hands behind, or is he torquing the shaft by a perfectly timed hip turn that starts the DS? Or what?

I just looked at the video again. It looks like it is the replanting of the left heel that springs the shaft: definitely swinging  'from the ground up'.

Thanks for video Caster/One Planer.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by mikec

Check out Golfonline.com for face on view.

Anybody notice how he "springs" the driver shaft at the top of the BS? 

Chuck or One Planer, is this from simply leaving the hands behind, or is he torquing the shaft by a perfectly timed hip turn that starts the DS? Or what?

I just looked at the video again. It looks like it is the replanting of the left heel that springs the shaft: definitely swinging  'from the ground up'.

Thanks for video Caster/One Planer.


I think it's simply the speed of his core rotation that loads the shaft.  He can turn his body almost as fast as Tiger Woods, and you don't see him going wildly off line like Tiger sometimes does, which indicates that he doesn't get stuck nearly as often.  I think he's got the best swing in golf right now.  I don't know if he thinks of his swing as being one plane, but it sure looks one plane to me.



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 10:00pm
Here's a direct link:

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline/instruction/hotswings/article/0,17742,634482,00.html - Appleby Front Swing View

People have been wondering about where his power comes from. He has a nice coil but he also makes one heck of a slide back on the backswing and then back forward on the downswing. Takes tremendous timing to repeat that motion and not over cook it in either direction.


Posted By: dougw
Date Posted: 12 January 2006 at 11:37pm

I think the guy is immediately rolling his left wrist on the BS as Hardy desires.  do any of you see that move?  (I don't know if that is pronating or supinating or what but anyway it seems he is "bowing" it)

doug



Posted By: armuge
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 12:12am
What a beatiful swing!!! It looks very compact and powerful. What a betiful tempo as well. Should I try to copy it? I guess I better not except tempo. Until now, I've been working on chest/shoulder driven OP swing whereas Stuart swing looks like "hip" driven OP swing. Although they are both OP swings, it felt completely different to me. It felt more powerful with hips but I found I'm a little more consistent with my chest. Also I found latter seems to easier to keep my spine angle as well. I think it's time for me to stick with one style and make sure they are repeatible.


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 7:24am
Of course Appleby just won the Mercedes and I'm sitting here in my kitchen talking about his swing. It's still a beautiful swing no matter what little things we can see in slow motion. It works for him.

armuge, if you really want to "copy" a swing, look at Chuck's or Paul's. I really like Chuck's and Paul's swings. Minimal movement, beautiful tempo, and good power (Chuck hits a 5 iron 195 yards).

oops, I noticed you aren't a Vault Member. Consider joining for a month or two and taking a look around. It's well worth it.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 9:15am
Originally posted by flyfishin

Here's a direct link:

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline/instruction/hotswings/article/0,17742,634482,00.html - Appleby Front Swing View

People have been wondering about where his power comes from. He has a nice coil but he also makes one heck of a slide back on the backswing and then back forward on the downswing. Takes tremendous timing to repeat that motion and not over cook it in either direction.


He does have a little bit of lateral movement off the ball during the takeaway.  I was surprised to see that, but what I notice in this face-on view is how late in the backswing he sets his hands.  Look at how high above his head the clubhead is in the last frame of his backswing.  His wrists don't cock until the last frame of the backswing.  From there, his transition results in a pronounced down-cocking of the hands.  I see now that this is the dyanamic move that loads the shaft.  It's the combined action of his late hand set, his very fast core rotation back to the left from the top, and his down-cocking of the hands which stores the power of his release.  Notice also how deep his right elbow is in that transition frame.  It appears to be behind his shirt seam.  It stays up and back all the way to impact. 



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 9:48am
True. His power is generated more from that move than the slide. He also seems to have a slight lift up in the next to last frame of the backswing. It's been a while since I've read his stuff but that reminds me of a Leadbetter move if I remember correctly. Maybe I just need more caffeine this morning.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 10:17am
Originally posted by flyfishin

True. His power is generated more from that move than the slide. He also seems to have a slight lift up in the next to last frame of the backswing. It's been a while since I've read his stuff but that reminds me of a Leadbetter move if I remember correctly. Maybe I just need more caffeine this morning.


I don't think so, Fly.  Leadbetter would have him setting his wrists much earlier and with the shaft much more vertical.



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 10:29am
I think I'll just get more caffeine now and shut up.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 10:49am
Originally posted by flyfishin

I think I'll just get more caffeine now and shut up.


Maybe I've had too much caffeine this morning. 


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 11:00am
It's been a long time since I've read anything swing related. I read one of Leadbetter's books over 10 years ago and quit reading golf magazines about 15 years ago. That improved my game immediately. I love the way Chuck teaches the swing so I think I'll just keep my commentary on that. See, I'm thinking more clearly after just a bit of caffeine.


Posted By: mikec
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by flyfishin

I love the way Chuck teaches the swing so I think I'll just keep my commentary on that.  


Leadbetter does teach a slight hip slide/bump on BS before there is any turn. Or used to. I don't know what he teaches anymore, because I quit reading his stuff too. But Appleby definitely has it.

It is different than OP fundamentals as taught by Chuck and probably does muck it up unless you already have that move in your swing and things are working for you.


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 1:03pm
I do have the slide in my swing. But it definitely doesn't work for me. It works fine except for 3 or 4 holes a round that absolutely kill me. That's why I'm working on turning without sliding.
The other thought that struck me earlier today is that Appleby's swing looks beautiful in full motion. This disecting route that I started down is worthless. Who cares how it looks in slow motion? If I like the looks of it full speed, and I do, that's what matters as far as looks are concerned.
I'm sure Chuck is getting a chuckle out of this thread.


Posted By: mikec
Date Posted: 13 January 2006 at 1:10pm
I agree. All the swinging into 'positions' doesn't transalate well into the full motion of the swing. I feel the swing, not what positions I'm in. 


Posted By: absolutunh
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 11:14am

The face-on view is from 4 years back and Stuart has made a concerted effort to rid himself of the slide move.  His compact motion has greatly increased his consistency but still needs to work on maintaining his excellent early-season results.



Posted By: mikec
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by absolutunh

The face-on view is from 4 years back and Stuart has made a concerted effort to rid himself of the slide move.  His compact motion has greatly increased his consistency but still needs to work on maintaining his excellent early-season results.



It seemed like alot of BS slide, that didn't seem to fit what Chuck teaches, given he wants to use this swing as an excellent OPS model. I'll watch Appleby closer on TV, or find a more current face-on view.


Posted By: caryk
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:35pm

Club,

Great videos  ... thanks a bunch for posting those.  I saved them to my hard drive but couldn't get them to run.  What am I doing wrong?  Thanks again for always sharing great stuff with us.



Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by caryk

Club,

Great videos  ... thanks a bunch for posting those.  I saved them to my hard drive but couldn't get them to run.  What am I doing wrong?  Thanks again for always sharing great stuff with us.

Cary,

Thank you for letting me know that you like this stuff

Try right clicking on the .swf file that you saved to your hard drive.  Then select Open With -> Internet Explorer from the popup menu.  Let me know if that works or not, or if my instructions don't make sense to you. 

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: Golf4Serenity
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 9:07pm

Clubcaster,

 

I would love to download these also, but I too cannot open them up. I even downloaded a couple of programs that specifically work with this type of file and get error messages. Let me know if you come up with a fix.

Thanks!

Pete



-------------
Pete Rizzardi
Cookeville, TN


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by Golf4Serenity

Clubcaster,

I would love to download these also, but I too cannot open them up. I even downloaded a couple of programs that specifically work with this type of file and get error messages. Let me know if you come up with a fix.

Thanks!

Pete

Pete,

I'd like to get to the bottom of why some people are having trouble with this, so if you (or anyone) can work with me, I'd appreciate it.

First of all, what exactly happens when you right click on the .swf file that you have saved to your hard drive and then select Open With->Internet Explorer from the popup menu?

If that does not work, then what happens when you click on this link?  http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net/Appleby/ApplebyDriver.html - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net/Appleby/ApplebyDriver.htm l

If that does work, then what happens when you save the above link to your hard drive in the same directory that you saved the .swf file, and then double click on that html file when it is on your hard drive?

If necessary, I'll convert these videos to .mpeg format for anyone that wants to save them to their hard drive, but it seems a shame to do that when the flash video format is so high quality with such a small file size.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: Golf4Serenity
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 10:21pm

Clubcaster,

I can view them on your site, and I can save the forum page and then open them in both cases. When I save the file and right click I don't get Explorer as an option. I even downloaded Infranview which will run .SWF in addition to Macromedia Flash. When I try to open the file with either of these programs I get an error message "cannot read file header" or something to that effect. I've never had a problem before - weird huh!?

Thanks for the help,

Pete



-------------
Pete Rizzardi
Cookeville, TN


Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 17 January 2006 at 10:40pm

Greetings all and a belated Happy New Year,

The Left One has returned from a sojourn traversing continents. Quite a lot of fun - how odd not to have a cell phone constantly ringing -but, however reluctantly, time to return to the grind. On the upside, I'm back on the golf course (though after today's 80-something return, maybe not as much of an upside as I'd thought! Serious rust in those clubs.)

I'll chime in on this thread because I spoke with Stuey last year and asked him about his swing and he looked at me and said, "Dunno". I perservered with another question and he repeated, "Dunno". He genuinely doesn't think about the swing at all. He just does it. He's not interested in how it works or what starts the downswing or what position he's in at the top or any of that.

His coach, Steve Bann, assured me that that's how Appleby works and that he never instructs him with mechanical ideas. However he did tell me that he doesn't consider Stuey (who he says has the same swing he had as a teenager) a one-planer in the Hardy sense because, to him, the one plane swing is limiting in terms of working the ball. Hence, Appleby has more hands in his swing than we'd want. There's also a lot (well, it's all relative) of weight transfer. As has been noted, he moves off the ball and then goes hard to get to his left side.

As an aside, I've noted since just watching golf and not playing it for a while that every good player gets across with the weight on the front foot at the finish. If you're looking for swing thoughts, you could do worse than "finish in balance" or something like that.

Good to be back ...

Lefty

 



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 8:49am
Lefty, welcome back! I've told countless students the exact same thing you just mentioned about Appleby's knowledge about dozens of other professionals I've spoken with. The bottom line - They don't have a clue how they swing the club. Most people don't believe that, I didn't at first, but after getting the same answer over and over, I finally accepted it and realized I knew way too much. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the average guy sufing the web and reading the golfing machine, etc. knows 100 times what the average tour pro knows about the swing. Lee Janzen is a good example, I taught his best friend last year before Bay Hill and he said everytime he asked Lee for help with his own swing, he had no idea how to help him. Lee said the only thing he has thought about for the last 8 year was to turn his hips from the top of the swing as hard as he can. That's it, beyond that, he has no clue what he is doing.

-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 8:51am
Welcome back, Lefty. 

I'm somewhat surprised that Stuart has no clue about the mechanics of his swing, and yet he has (IMO) the best looking swing on tour.  It's a paradox.  Compare his approach with Tiger Woods who seems to obsess over his mechanics and is constantly changing and rehearsing his new moves while playing.  Judging by the number of coaches hovering around their pupils on the practice tee at every tour event, Stuart is the exception rather than the rule out there.  I guess he was blessed at birth with good swing DNA.

I'm leaving on Friday for three weeks myself, but my trip will definitely involve golf, including a visit with Chuck on the 30th as I travel from Jacksonville through Orlando to Sarasota.  Once I get to Sarasota, it will be golf, golf, and more golf for two weeks. 



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 9:02am

OP,

My experience on the practice tee has been mostly the opposite. I've had the opportunity to hang out on the tee at Bay Hill with Adrian when he was working alot with Robert Gamez. The majority of instructors, especially during the week, don't say much to anything at all about mechanics. Now this is also during a tournament, but I've also sat in on practice sessions with a lot of tour pros and the same is true and I do the same with the professionals that I work with. The mechanics are at an absolute minimum. Tiger is definitely an enigma, one in a billion, and unfortunately countless golfers try and be just like him now. Look at how Jack changed the game, yardages, strategy, slow play, etc. It still blows my mind that Hogan and Snead played by sight! They eyed a target and were like, yeah that "looks" like a 7 iron. The scores they shot like that were nothing short of phenomenal given all the other things working against them such as equipment and course condition.

In my opinion, most people have a fairly decent swing right out of the box, but because they are "trying" to swing a certain way based on what they see or what they've been told, they're natural swinging ability is buried under a ton of mechanics that ruins them for life unless they find an instructor that can help them "unbury" their swinging ability of youth and simplify their understanding of the swing forever - Just like the tour pros have.



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 9:03am
Originally posted by One Planer

I'm leaving on Friday for three weeks myself, but my trip will definitely involve golf, including a visit with Chuck on the 30th as I travel from Jacksonville through Orlando to Sarasota.  Once I get to Sarasota, it will be golf, golf, and more golf for two weeks. 


Rub it in One Planer, rub it in.


Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

OP,

My experience on the practice tee has been mostly the opposite. I've had the opportunity to hang out on the tee at Bay Hill with Adrian when he was working alot with Robert Gamez. The majority of instructors, especially during the week, don't say much to anything at all about mechanics. Now this is also during a tournament, but I've also sat in on practice sessions with a lot of tour pros and the same is true and I do the same with the professionals that I work with. The mechanics are at an absolute minimum. Tiger is definitely an enigma, one in a billion, and unfortunately countless golfers try and be just like him now. Look at how Jack changed the game, yardages, strategy, slow play, etc. It still blows my mind that Hogan and Snead played by sight! They eyed a target and were like, yeah that "looks" like a 7 iron. The scores they shot like that were nothing short of phenomenal given all the other things working against them such as equipment and course condition.

In my opinion, most people have a fairly decent swing right out of the box, but because they are "trying" to swing a certain way based on what they see or what they've been told, they're natural swinging ability is buried under a ton of mechanics that ruins them for life unless they find an instructor that can help them "unbury" their swinging ability of youth and simplify their understanding of the swing forever - Just like the tour pros have.



Chuck, interesting observations.  You would know, having been there.  My view of the practice tee is from "outside the ropes".   When I lived in Dallas, I attended the Byron Nelson and Colonial Invitational events several times and spent most of my time watching the players on the practice tee, especially on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.  It seemed to me there were a lot of coaches there on those days.  Most were just quietly observing, making an occasional comment, while others were deeply engaged with their pupils.  The engaged ones seemed to be working on one particular thing, apparently something they deemed to be "off" and in need of fixing.  My own club here in Grand Rapids hosted a Senior Tour event for several years.  There were no coaches to be seen on the practice tee or anywhere else during the week of the event.  I guess the senior tour players have it figured out by that age. 



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 9:40am
Originally posted by flyfishin

Originally posted by One Planer

I'm leaving on Friday for three weeks myself, but my trip will definitely involve golf, including a visit with Chuck on the 30th as I travel from Jacksonville through Orlando to Sarasota.  Once I get to Sarasota, it will be golf, golf, and more golf for two weeks. 


Rub it in One Planer, rub it in.


Is my gloating a little too obvious, Fly? 


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 9:55am
Enjoy the trip. I've already started planning my three week golf excursions. I just have 23 years left until I have the time to implement them.


Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 10:05am

OP,

In my opinion, there is more to learn for the average golfer by watching the senior tour than the regular tour. Those guys are not the superstar athletes with loads of natural ability that we see today. They're joe blow from your local club who stopped giving a darn about his swing mechanics and just started to play the game. Wisdom comes with age, but the abundance of youth and obstinance found in golf today leads many to believe they can "overcome" the game with "perfect" mechanics. The old guys gave up on that a long time ago and now make a living doing what they love and flying around in private jets. I'm certain they look down on the average 30 something golfer buying book after book with a fair bit of pity. I'm sure if someone would stop to take the time to ask one of them, they could tell you what you really need to know about the game, and I would bet that maybe 1 out of 100 or less would mention TGM, swing mechanics, swing plane or anything else.

Now on the big boy tour, that's a whole other story that could be talked about forever. When I first started working with Adrian, I met Robert Gamez and asked Adrian what they worked on in his swing, since that's what I thought golf instruction was. Adrian told me, "His putting." "No, I mean, what do you work on on the range," I said. "His putting." If you've ever seen Robert swing, it ain't pretty, in slo mo, his positions are awful. There are a few guys, particularly younger guys who are trying to conquer via mechanics. Charles Howell is a great example of someone who got even more extreme, putting a simulator in his house and then nearly fell off the planet from where he was when he came out on tour. This year he says he has simplified things and isn't so concerned with mechanics. Others weren't so lucky and lost their cards before they could be saved from mechanics. Gossett is a good example of that.



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 10:21am
I always wondered what happened to David Gossett.


Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 10:32am

David Gossett: two different teachers are showing me the art and science of the swing - Full Swing

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_5_54/ai_101967363 - http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_5_54/ai_1 01967363



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 11:59am

Thanks the kind words CQ and Uno.

Uno, I too am envious, though I live in Southern Cal and yesterday even thought about wearing a sweater at one point in my round ... . Enjoy your time and I'm sure you and CQ will light it up.

As for the way it operates with the pros, I agree Tiger's generally the exception. There are others who want to know everything but broadly speaking, in my experience CQ's right. Peter Lonard, before he went to Leadbetter, used to email his swing to his coach, Gary Edwin, down under. What were the responses? The "coaching"? Set up, posture, alignment. Never the actual swing. Funnily enough, while we're on Aussies, Adam Scott said when he had his breakthrough win at the Swedish masters a couple of years ago he only putted and chipped. Never hit a ball on the range all week.

Interesting, eh?

Lefty

 



Posted By: Skully
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 12:04pm

 Wow, this turned into a great thread. Thanks for posting the clips clubcaster. Welcome back Lefty, and have fun OPlner. I need a golf trip too, i get so damn depressed in the winter.

 



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

OP,

In my opinion, there is more to learn for the average golfer by watching the senior tour than the regular tour. Those guys are not the superstar athletes with loads of natural ability that we see today. They're joe blow from your local club who stopped giving a darn about his swing mechanics and just started to play the game. Wisdom comes with age, but the abundance of youth and obstinance found in golf today leads many to believe they can "overcome" the game with "perfect" mechanics. The old guys gave up on that a long time ago and now make a living doing what they love and flying around in private jets. I'm certain they look down on the average 30 something golfer buying book after book with a fair bit of pity. I'm sure if someone would stop to take the time to ask one of them, they could tell you what you really need to know about the game, and I would bet that maybe 1 out of 100 or less would mention TGM, swing mechanics, swing plane or anything else.

Now on the big boy tour, that's a whole other story that could be talked about forever. When I first started working with Adrian, I met Robert Gamez and asked Adrian what they worked on in his swing, since that's what I thought golf instruction was. Adrian told me, "His putting." "No, I mean, what do you work on on the range," I said. "His putting." If you've ever seen Robert swing, it ain't pretty, in slo mo, his positions are awful. There are a few guys, particularly younger guys who are trying to conquer via mechanics. Charles Howell is a great example of someone who got even more extreme, putting a simulator in his house and then nearly fell off the planet from where he was when he came out on tour. This year he says he has simplified things and isn't so concerned with mechanics. Others weren't so lucky and lost their cards before they could be saved from mechanics. Gossett is a good example of that.



Interestingly, though, the senior tour players seemed to go to the range to practice after their rounds in almost the same numbers as regular tour players.  Some of them stay out there for a long time, so it's not as if they don't work on their swings. 



Posted By: One Planer
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Lefty

Thanks the kind words CQ and Uno.

Uno, I too am envious, though I live in Southern Cal and yesterday even thought about wearing a sweater at one point in my round ... . Enjoy your time and I'm sure you and CQ will light it up.

As for the way it operates with the pros, I agree Tiger's generally the exception. There are others who want to know everything but broadly speaking, in my experience CQ's right. Peter Lonard, before he went to Leadbetter, used to email his swing to his coach, Gary Edwin, down under. What were the responses? The "coaching"? Set up, posture, alignment. Never the actual swing. Funnily enough, while we're on Aussies, Adam Scott said when he had his breakthrough win at the Swedish masters a couple of years ago he only putted and chipped. Never hit a ball on the range all week.

Interesting, eh?

Lefty

 



It is interesting.  Simple things like set up, posture, and alignment are the things that can get off kilter so easily, whereas the swing motion itself is basically grooved when a player reaches that level.  Lonard has such a simple motion, there's not a lot that can go wrong.


Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 1:21pm
[QUOTE=One Planer]

 It is interesting.  Simple things like set up, posture, and alignment are the things that can get off kilter so easily, 



In high school, my golf coach taught us what he considered the five fundamentals of a golf. Grip, stance, alignment, posture, and ball position. If your ball striking went to heck you went to the range and worked on one of those. One of them was usually a bit off.


Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 1:36pm

I know you know this Uno, but for others it's important to understand that grooving your swing and thinking about swing positions aren't the same. (The most infamous anti-Leadbetter story I know reflects just this: he gave Ernie a glove with a black line on it to show how the handle should fit in the hand right before a British Open. Ernie was hitting it sideways on the range and, after a few people asked him what was wrong, he wisely ditched the glove.)

Most touring pros spend time on the range/traps/putting green etc to reinforce what they already know and groove it. Repetition (if it's the right thing you're repeating) equals certainty. Very few of them try to re-invent the wheel every day and, I'd argue, none successfully.

Pros have figured out how to repeat an action to get the ball going, roughly, where they want it to go. It's usually a simple action. Surprisingly so. I played with a guy yesterday who just turned and turned back. A little lift in the arms, so not a one planer as we'd know it, but a body swinger nonetheless. He shot even par and it was the worst score he could've shot on a very demanding Nicklaus track.

Most of the rest of us either can't repeat our swings or, if we can, realize the bloody ball won't go where we want it to when we do! Hence, the Constant Search.

The more I look at the Big Picture, the more I see that CQ is heading in the right direction in terms of keeping it simple and scoring as best you can. I shot a ton yesterday upon my return to the links but it was, as noted above, a very tough course and four or five of my tee shots went into "environmentally sensitive areas" (some by only a few feet) which meant penalties and, usually, bogey at best.

But I didn't freak out as much as I would have even a few months' ago. Of course, I didn't particularly enjoy opening my wallet, but c'est la vie.

Get 'em next time,

Lefty

 



Posted By: Skully
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 3:08pm
 But just having a repeatable swing isn't enough. Then we want to add distance, and more distance. I know that's the trap i fall into over and over again. I probably do have a swing i can rely on, but then i get greedy. It's not just me though, players at all levels are always trying to squeeze a few more yards out of their swings.


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 3:42pm

Hey!  Did my thread get hijacked?

....Just kidding guys . This is interesting stuff.  And welcome back Lefty!

It seems like this forum has attracted a lot of low-handicap players, so by and large you guys really shouldn't be worrying too much about your mechanics.  Please understand the tremendous struggle that a high percentage of us have with mastering the few simple fundamentals, though.  I golf with too many hacks, that have never worried about their mechanics at all, to believe that the high handicappers among us can just forget about technique, and expect to improve significantly.  

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by Golf4Serenity

Clubcaster,

I can view them on your site, and I can save the forum page and then open them in both cases. When I save the file and right click I don't get Explorer as an option. I even downloaded Infranview which will run .SWF in addition to Macromedia Flash. When I try to open the file with either of these programs I get an error message "cannot read file header" or something to that effect. I've never had a problem before - weird huh!?

Thanks for the help,

Pete


Pete,

If I understand you correctly, the flash videos (.swf files) that you downloaded onto your machine are working just fine when run from within your web browser.  I'm not familiar with Infranview, so can't help much there.  But flash video is meant to be run from within your web browser.  The only problem you appear to be having is that the .swf file format is not associated with Internet Explorer yet.  All you need to do is right-click on one of the .swf files, and select "Open with...".  You then need to select from the list of programs that is presented to open up the file.  Select Internet Explorer (or your preferred web browser), from the list and check the dialog box to "Always use this program to open these files".  Once you do that, you can just double click on any .swf file in the future and it will be run from within your web browser.

I hope my instructions aren't too cryptic, or insulting.  If anyone still has trouble I'll be glad to help out further, either here, or in a Private Message.  I'm a bit swamped at work today, but can probably respond by tomorrow.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net

 



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 4:34pm

Club,

In all honesty, the fact that you are a high handicapper is, well, just plain wrong. Mechanically, you have a great golf swing. Yes, you have a bit of an issue with casting, but overall, your positions are very solid. Heck, some of them are probably better than mine. You don't have much of a dynamic transition from the top, and you just start down with the club instead of the body. It's typically a tension, trust and control thing, but don't sweat it, we'll get you straightened out.

-C



-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: Skully
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 5:36pm
 Chuck, I'm glad you said that. I don't think his swing looks too bad either. (except when attempting to throw a club down range).
  I don't know what "high handicap" means, i guess it's relative, but there's no way he shouldn't be single digits with that full swing.


Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 5:50pm

Hey CC (I thought we were going to refer to you as X-caster? )

Sorry to hijack the thread. I certainly don't mean there's no room for instruction. But I also have come to believe that having the "correct" positions isn't reflective of how you score. Of course, you need to get the club into the right place at impact. No question there. If you can't do that, then that's going to be step #1. I certainly have had to get that figured out, but by and large I think I have with this one plane/body swing. I don't feel the urge to look around for something better as I used to (obsessively, I might add).

As Skully notes, we tend to forget that we can, in some way, hit the ball in the general direction we want and then get lost in the abyss of trying to perfect that.

I think the road out for us is as CQ says: winning the war between doubt and tension and trust and smoothness.

Lefty

 



Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton

Club,

In all honesty, the fact that you are a high handicapper is, well, just plain wrong. Mechanically, you have a great golf swing. Yes, you have a bit of an issue with casting, but overall, your positions are very solid. Heck, some of them are probably better than mine. You don't have much of a dynamic transition from the top, and you just start down with the club instead of the body. It's typically a tension, trust and control thing, but don't sweat it, we'll get you straightened out.

-C

Thank you very much for the encouraging words, Chuck.  My frustration has really been mounting lately, but you just did an amazing job of putting my mind at ease.  It's time for me to get back to basics.  I need to stop messing around with all of my own crazy ideas and just take advantage of the help that you provide. 

Thanks again,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 18 January 2006 at 6:01pm

I concur, CC.

My 2 cents: You appear to start down with the hands/arms and engage the body midway down by which time it's too late to get the body "into" the swing as it never really gets the chance to catch up, so there's a disconnect. You're probably lacking distance and when you miss a shot, I'm sure your hands feel the sting. But in the scheme of things, it's a small problem to fix. It's really just a sequencing issue. I used to suffer from a similar malaise and, for me, it stemmed from the fact that I thought I needed to "control" the swing and what better way to do that than with my hands? It sounds very logical and should be, but it turns out the golf swing isn't ...

Lefty

 



Posted By: mikec
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Chuck Quinton


You don't have much of a dynamic transition from the top, 

 



Caster, you might want to read Chuck's 'One Plane Swing in Depth', The Transition section, to get an idea about a more dynamic transition.

Your swing looks pretty sound to me. Chuck and Lefty have cut to the chase.




Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 20 January 2006 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by mikec

Originally posted by Chuck Quinton


You don't have much of a dynamic transition from the top, 

 



Caster, you might want to read Chuck's 'One Plane Swing in Depth', The Transition section, to get an idea about a more dynamic transition.

Your swing looks pretty sound to me. Chuck and Lefty have cut to the chase.

Thank you Mike, I'll check it out.  I just re-read Chuck's post in the Member's Vault on "what I teach in a nutshell" the other day too.  Holy smokes, there's a ton of great stuff in there!  There is a bunch of golden nuggets that I don't remember being there the first time I read it.  Chuck must have snuck that stuff in there when nobody was looking .

Anyway, thank you again for the tip on the Chuck's post on the transition.  I'll take a look.

ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net


Posted By: Points
Date Posted: 22 January 2006 at 7:21pm
I have read on this site that Appleby is a great example of a one planer.  Looking at the footage his path looks like a big hook path.  Anyone care to explain how the club can move on one plane and be a big hook swing?  Club exits through his neck/head on the swing posted.


Posted By: Bob34
Date Posted: 22 January 2006 at 8:59pm

Originally posted by Points

  Club exits through his neck/head on the swing posted.

That just sounds painful

Regards,

Bob

 



Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 11:26am

Originally posted by Points

<snip>  Anyone care to explain how.....? 
<snip>

Points,

You might have better luck with questions that start like this in a TGM forum like Manzella's.  We're mostly just trying to help each other out with our golf games around here, not get mired down in intellectual debates.  Now, if you have some valuable insight on Appleby's swing that might help the rest of us out, please do share.

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net

 



Posted By: Lefty
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 11:32am

Agreeed CC,

Points has a lot of Jeffy in him. Beyond that, Appleby's not a one planer in the sense we know it because he has very active hands. Hook = active hands with the back elbow in front of the hip.

Lefty

 

 



Posted By: randini
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 11:46am
 I concur Lefty.......I am left handed also.......and I know when my left elbow gets in front of my left hip......it's time to release the hounds and go ball searchin.....

-------------
randini / 1 hdc


Posted By: Points
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 1:18pm

Sorry if I offended you Clubcaster.  I was merely asking for clarification on the subject which was Appleby's one plane move.  It was my understanding that the one plane swing required the club to swing around with the body. 

Since this forum is about helping people, I would think where the club exits on the forward swing is important to helping people with their game.  To bad if you don't feel the same but no reason to right a critical post.

 



Posted By: flyfishin
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 1:32pm
Appleby's finish looks very similar to http://http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/p5_one_plane_swing_in_depth.html - Chuck's . His position at the top of the backswing is classic one plane, at least to my eyes. Classic in the sense that Chuck teaches. I haven't read Hardy's book and I haven't read TGM. From the position he gets to at the top, if you simple rotate your core through the swing and let your arms lag, you won't hit a big old hook. If I remember correctly, Chuck mentioned he will be doing an analysis of Stuart's swing at some point.


Posted By: Clubcaster
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Points

Sorry if I offended you Clubcaster.  I was merely asking for clarification on the subject which was Appleby's one plane move.  It was my understanding that the one plane swing required the club to swing around with the body. 

Since this forum is about helping people, I would think where the club exits on the forward swing is important to helping people with their game.  To bad if you don't feel the same but no reason to right a critical post.

Don't worry, Points.  You would have to try a lot harder than that to offend me. 

When you start off a question with "Anyone care to explain how..." though, it sounds a lot more like you are pining for an argument than you are trying to understand something, or trying to offer your insight.

One thing I think most of us have concluded is that there are very few, if any, pure one-plane or two-plane swingers on tour, as Hardy defines them.  I don't think anybody said that Appleby is a pure one-plane swinger.  In fact, it was noted that not only does Appleby himself not think of his swing as one-plane, he doesn't think about his swing much at all. 

Chuck has stated that once you have the fundamentals down, the rest is just a matter of your swing DNA.  Since I've come to believe that, I'm not too concerned with where Appleby's club exits for my own purposes.  But it would still be interesting to know your opinion on what we can learn from Appleby's follow-through. 

Thanks,
ClubCaster
http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net - http://ClubCaster.home.comcast.net



Posted By: Points
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 6:07pm

I guess I have should have addressed "someone" then Clubcaster.

In terms of Appleby's release, I stated that it looks very off plane and is one which would hit blocks and the occassional hook.  If it were one plane, I would assume the exit to be lower and similar to the plane at address.



Posted By: Skully
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 7:12pm
 The only think i would worry about in the "after-impact" area, is to try and mirror the followthrough to the backswing, or at least close. 


Posted By: Bob34
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 7:18pm

I don't know, I think that after impact there can be more manipulation of the hands and arms that really doesn't make much difference...

Regards,

Bob

 



Posted By: Chuck Quinton
Date Posted: 23 January 2006 at 7:57pm
Guys, I'm working on the Appleby video as you speak. I'm trying something different and new. It will be a video of his swing and then a frame by frame discussion via video rather than just pictures this time. That way I can illustrate and discuss rather than type and take pictures.

-------------
Current USGA Handicap +.2
http://www.oneplanegolfswing.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3130&PN=1 - See what's in my bag!
Scoring Avg. 72.92, GIR 65%, FIR 65.71%, Putts 30.38


Posted By: RickyHarris
Date Posted: 25 January 2006 at 7:45am

His swing i so simple, Basically all he does after gettign in a good set up position is just turn his shoulders back and then turn his hips as hard as he can and just let the club follow. Basically what the one plane siwng is, Turn back turn through.

Where all here saying all this stuff about oh his impact area is like 1.5 degree to high or whatever HAHAHA but all he probably thinks is turn shoulders for the BS and then turn hips for the DS.

Just gota think simple. But i cnat lol, IM A INSTRUCTION JUNKIE. Gota get out of that.

       
       
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